Thomas Jane | Throwing Dreams Into Space

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Thomas Jane: You walk into a

little grocery shop in uh, France,

 

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and you get the best chocolate.

 

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You know, it's just like they,

when they make something,

 

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they make it right out here.

 

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I don't know what the hell they put in it.

 

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It's awful.

 

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Announcer: Welcome to Story Craft.

 

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Now here's your host, Marc Preston.

 

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Hey, how's it

 

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Marc Preston: going?

 

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It's Marc Preston back again,

another episode of Story and Draft.

 

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If this is your very first

episode, well welcome.

 

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Thank you so much for stopping by.

 

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Uh, hey, if you've been

here before, thank you.

 

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I know it's been a few weeks.

 

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It's been a moment.

 

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I know, I know.

 

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Uh, don't be too mad.

 

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I had a big project I had to get put to

bed and locked down, and it is finished.

 

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So Yay.

 

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You and I get to spend more time together,

and that's really where I wanna be.

 

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Just you and I here together, and

of course, with our guest today,

 

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the talented actor Thomas Jane.

 

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I mean, you know, Thomas, he's,

he's been around a, a long time

 

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constellation of really cool projects.

 

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Uh, he, uh, of course was in The Expanse.

 

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If you've listened to the show, you know,

I love The Expanse, my son and I, uh,

 

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Zachary and I, uh, it's one of our shows.

 

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He's also been in, uh, HBO's Hung

and, uh, Troppo, which is a cool show.

 

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I, I, I knew it was out there, I just

hadn't had a chance to check it out.

 

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After, uh, chatting with Thomas, I

went already been through the first.

 

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Season and a half I think.

 

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Uh, enjoy it.

 

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Shot in Australia.

 

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Uh, in the last year, I think this

is like my fourth show I've gotten

 

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into that's produced in Australia.

 

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They do some, uh, great TV in Australia.

 

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In fact, in fact, I

would love to say hello.

 

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I know there's a lot, uh, uh, folks

checking out the show in Australia.

 

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I don't know if there's something in

the water, uh, besides crocodiles.

 

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I don't know.

 

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Uh, but I have a lot of folks checking in.

 

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Uh, you know, and I think outside

of the us uh, I think that's where.

 

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We have a, a phenomenal amount

of folks checking us out.

 

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So, hey, if you're in Melbourne, Brisbane,

uh, Sydney, Perth, wherever you happen

 

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to be, uh, gold Coast, which I really

would love to check out one day, uh,

 

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thank you so much for, uh, stopping by.

 

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So, hello Australia.

 

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Uh, and of course you may remember,

I mean, if you go all the way back, I

 

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mean, he was like in Boogie Nights in 97.

 

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Uh, of course he was in that film

with Marc Wahlberg, who is in

 

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his new film called Play Dirty.

 

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It is on Amazon Prime Video.

 

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Uh, you can check it out right now.

 

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You know, Thomas, uh, really

enjoyed chatting with him.

 

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Uh, do me a favor, by the way, if

you would make sure to grab your

 

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podcast listening device and, uh,

make sure to follow story and craft.

 

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Get notifications every time

a new episode rolls out.

 

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Also leave, uh, some stars,

uh, likes, thumbs up, whatever.

 

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Throw some glitter or tinsel.

 

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I mean, it is that time of year.

 

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Uh, you know, it helps people find

story and craft, which is uber

 

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cool, and I appreciate you greatly.

 

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So also, everything about

the show, check it out.

 

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Story and craft po.

 

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Dot com.

 

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Once again, story and craft pod.com,

everything about the show's right there.

 

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So let's jump into it today.

 

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Uh, really enjoyed this conversation.

 

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We talked about everything from chocolate

to aliens to, you know, great authors.

 

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I mean, we just covered a lot of ground.

 

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I mean, this is a guy I would sit down

and just love to have a beer with one day.

 

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So, uh, he's, he's one

of those cool dudes.

 

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You just wanna sit down with kind

of one of those guys who's, who's

 

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got some great stories to tell and,

uh, is just a great storyteller.

 

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So, uh, let's get after it today.

 

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It's Thomas Jane Day right

here on Story and Craft.

 

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Where are you joining me from today?

 

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Thomas Jane: I'm in,

 

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Marc Preston: uh, silver

Lake, uh, Los Angeles.

 

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Is that your original home base,

or did you, uh, find your way to

 

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LA from, uh, points elsewhere?

 

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Thomas Jane: I came in from Maryland.

 

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I grew up in the sticks of Maryland, um,

outside of dc about an hour outside of dc.

 

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Left home at an early age and,

uh, drove across the country.

 

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I didn't have any money, so I figured

it would be warmer on the west coast.

 

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You know, I wanted to go to acting school

and there was one in New York and one,

 

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and there was one in LA that I liked.

 

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And, and so I came out here so I

could, you know, not freeze to death.

 

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Marc Preston: I hear the food is good

in, in Maryland, you know, the crabs.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Being close to dc Were any of your

parents in the DC machine at all, or?

 

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No.

 

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My dad was into

 

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Thomas Jane: microbiology.

 

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He got into it early.

 

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He the seventies.

 

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So, uh.

 

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That's basically the hub of

the, uh, microbiology, you know,

 

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NHI and all that's over there.

 

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Okay.

 

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So that's basically why we were there.

 

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He started a couple of companies,

you know, working in Biogenetics.

 

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Marc Preston: Did you have any

siblings that also chose kind of the

 

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path you did or they go the nor were

they more into the sites, things like

 

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Thomas Jane: that?

 

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No, they're all kind of normies.

 

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Yeah.

 

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I'm the oldest, um, of six really.

 

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Uh, I've got four brothers and

I had a sister, but she's dead.

 

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And, um.

 

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It's just like a mess of boys and

they're all, most of them are out here.

 

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Three brothers are out here and

one of them is back east, near

 

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close to my mom and pop, which is

good 'cause they're getting on.

 

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Marc Preston: Right.

 

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Well, so they ended up out, uh, out west.

 

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Jesus kind of set the template and

like, okay, big brothers going.

 

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I

 

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Thomas Jane: guess I did.

 

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Yeah.

 

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They all kind of followed me out here

after a few years, you know, I mean,

 

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I left, they were still in school,

but you know, when they got out they

 

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decided the west coast might not be

 

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Marc Preston: bad.

 

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I'm trying to remember the first

time you kind of came into my.

 

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Uh, we're I boogie nights?

 

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Definitely.

 

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And here you are making a return.

 

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Was there any, uh, you and Marc Wahlberg?

 

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Did y'all have any kind

of like right play?

 

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Did y Yeah, we did.

 

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How?

 

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Wow.

 

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On like, okay man, look at

 

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Thomas Jane: all the years we did and

we told, we told some good stories.

 

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Um, that was fun.

 

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That was really fun.

 

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Reuniting with Wahlberg.

 

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Uh, and we got to hang out for a few days.

 

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And of course, I love Shane Black, so.

 

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Anything he asked me to do, I'll do it.

 

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Marc Preston: Um, yeah, that was

that first movie that everybody

 

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kinda looked at, uh, Marcy Marc and

go, yeah, yeah, he is got the chops.

 

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Okay.

 

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He can do this thing.

 

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I mean, well, he had

 

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Thomas Jane: a great director.

 

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Oh yeah.

 

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Paul Thomas, and he's good.

 

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Uh, he's great, you know,

but old Marc is, he's solid.

 

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He does his thing and, uh,

he does it really well.

 

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Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

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Paul Thomas Anderson is somebody who

just really did, did he, didn't he direct

 

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Magnolia as well, or am I imagining

 

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Thomas Jane: that?

 

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Yeah.

 

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Okay.

 

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He, he did.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Yeah.

 

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I was supposed to play

two parts in Magnolia.

 

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Um, I played one as the,

uh, game show host dressed.

 

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They put a bunch of

prosthetics on me to be older.

 

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And then, um, I was supposed to

play another small role in a,

 

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in a, i, I was like at a craps

table or something, or gambling.

 

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Then I got a chance to work with,

um, gene Hackman and Morgan Freeman

 

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on a little movie in Puerto Rico.

 

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So I had to take that, I had to jump

onto that, uh, that, and have that just

 

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as an actor to work with those two guys.

 

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I knew I was gonna learn a hell of a

lot just watching those guys of things.

 

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And I did.

 

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That's

 

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Marc Preston: you've had an opportunity

to really have a nice constellation of

 

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different, very notable folks that Yeah.

 

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You know, you've had a chance to be, uh,

you know, when you make decisions on what

 

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projects to take, is it, is it, mm-hmm.

 

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Do you, do you look at that, go,

okay, who's working on this thing?

 

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I, you know, I wanna work with them.

 

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Is that a factor ever, or, oh,

 

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Thomas Jane: absolutely.

 

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That's a big factor.

 

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Who you're working with, uh, who's

directing the thing and who the,

 

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who are the actors you get a chance

to work with, which I've been lucky

 

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and, you know, worked with, uh.

 

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Some of the greats and I've got to bounce

around, you know, uh, I'm a character

 

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actor really, and, uh, you know, I've got,

I feel like I've gotten the opportunity

 

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to play a lot of leading roles, which

is great, but at heart I'm a character

 

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actor and, uh, I can, you know, I'm not

the kind of guy that you just kind of

 

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know who he is From the poster I, I've,

I've, I can kind of blend into different

 

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characters and I've always enjoyed that.

 

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You know, that's from the

 

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Marc Preston: very beginning.

 

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That's one of the things I love when

I, when I talk to folks, I always.

 

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Uh, really enjoy the folks that are

always working and they're always,

 

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you know, you're just glad to

see 'em when they show up because

 

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something's gonna be kind of cool.

 

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And I, like, I was, uh, talking to

my son, I was talking, be talking

 

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to Thomas Jane and he is like, oh

yeah, he's guy from The Expanse.

 

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Right.

 

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They're like the expanses, my son

and I, that's our show, you know?

 

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And that was Oh, great.

 

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I you're, you actually

talked to show Ray Alu.

 

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You're the second Expanse chat

I've had and, uh, ah, she's great.

 

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Yeah.

 

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Terrific.

 

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She's kind of a unique badass,

just, she's just so cool.

 

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She sure is.

 

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Um, but you, one of a kind, you know,

for those who have not seen the expanse,

 

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little spoiler may be coming, but the,

I wanna know, when they came to you

 

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or when the project came to you, did

you understand what it was gonna be?

 

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Or did you 'cause it, it's, it's a little.

 

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You know, I don't wanna give too much

away for those who still haven't seen

 

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it, you know, but you're, you're, you're

there, but you're not there, you know?

 

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Was it easy to kind of see where

it was going or was it kind of

 

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Thomas Jane: that They're based on

a series of wonderful books and,

 

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uh, so we followed the story of

the books fairly, uh, religiously.

 

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You know, we have to

turn it into television.

 

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But, uh, we had a terrific crew of

writers and wonderful producers, and

 

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we knew from the beginning that we

wanted to make something special.

 

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We just happened to catch the sci-fi

channel at a period where they felt like

 

221

00:09:47,490 --> 00:09:51,390

they needed to do more premier stuff.

 

222

00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:51,959

Pristine.

 

223

00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:54,900

In other words, they wanted to

spend some money on a show, right?

 

224

00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:58,110

'cause they wanted to

elevate their channel.

 

225

00:09:59,189 --> 00:10:00,660

So we happened to get the money.

 

226

00:10:01,229 --> 00:10:04,740

My agents told me not to do it

because it's the sci-fi channel.

 

227

00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,390

Um, but I believed in the crew.

 

228

00:10:09,449 --> 00:10:15,180

I believed in the group, you know, uh,

Marc Fergus and Hawk Osby, um, who wrote

 

229

00:10:15,180 --> 00:10:20,520

Children of Men, uh, iron Man, you know,

and, and a lot of other great stuff.

 

230

00:10:20,610 --> 00:10:26,610

Um, I thought, and the books

were terrific and I love a film

 

231

00:10:26,610 --> 00:10:30,030

noir and b. Science fiction.

 

232

00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:30,270

Mm-hmm.

 

233

00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:37,705

So to be able to combine the two was,

um, a real dream for me to even jump.

 

234

00:10:37,705 --> 00:10:39,630

Even your, your character was

a little bit of a throwback

 

235

00:10:39,685 --> 00:10:40,680

Marc Preston: in, in, in a way.

 

236

00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:44,880

It seems like you, there was a

little, uh, to the old detective

 

237

00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,410

vibe, you know, from back in the day.

 

238

00:10:46,410 --> 00:10:48,360

It seems like you were kind

of like embracing a little,

 

239

00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:49,380

like you said, the film noir.

 

240

00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:52,530

I kind of felt that, but I mean, it

was like you were the one through line.

 

241

00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:52,680

Mm-hmm.

 

242

00:10:52,685 --> 00:10:54,960

I mean, I am geeking out a little

bit on The Expanse thing 'cause it is

 

243

00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,260

one show that I just, one of the few

shows I'm like, please have a sequel.

 

244

00:10:58,260 --> 00:11:02,040

You know, or, or a right to make

that happen to be just monumental.

 

245

00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,730

I know, but, um, but you were kind

of the through line, you were sort

 

246

00:11:05,730 --> 00:11:08,700

of, there was almost like a narrative

nature, like when you showed up,

 

247

00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:10,590

you were connecting to mm-hmm.

 

248

00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:13,860

Your roots were all over the every stage.

 

249

00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:14,340

You know,

 

250

00:11:14,430 --> 00:11:18,060

Thomas Jane: they collide, they're two

different worlds and they eventually

 

251

00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:20,580

collide and then merge into one.

 

252

00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:23,340

Um, I think the books are.

 

253

00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,020

You cut above, you know, if anybody's

into reading sci-fi, I mean, you

 

254

00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:29,400

haven't checked out The Expanse.

 

255

00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,360

You definitely should.

 

256

00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:31,860

Especially the first

 

257

00:11:31,860 --> 00:11:32,220

Marc Preston: three.

 

258

00:11:32,970 --> 00:11:33,120

Yeah.

 

259

00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,170

I think the air apparent to that

vibe is the, uh, on the Apple tv.

 

260

00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:40,319

The uh, uh, uh, foundation, I

think kind of, kind of captures a

 

261

00:11:40,319 --> 00:11:41,845

little bit of that kind of mm-hmm.

 

262

00:11:42,025 --> 00:11:42,960

Out, you know?

 

263

00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:43,590

Yeah.

 

264

00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:45,449

I told my son, I was like, yeah,

I'm look really looking forward.

 

265

00:11:45,449 --> 00:11:47,069

I gotta ask him some expanse questions.

 

266

00:11:47,069 --> 00:11:48,960

So I gotta say, that was cool.

 

267

00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,110

I loved your character and the,

and the, the, I wanted to keep

 

268

00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:53,939

the hat, by the way, the, the hat.

 

269

00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:54,810

I do

 

270

00:11:54,810 --> 00:11:55,685

Thomas Jane: have the hat.

 

271

00:11:55,944 --> 00:11:56,165

Yes.

 

272

00:11:56,430 --> 00:11:57,600

I did take that home.

 

273

00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,040

I took the hat tonight.

 

274

00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,010

Got a, I got a, a gun

around here too, somewhere.

 

275

00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,860

Marc Preston: I always wonder,

do you keep stuff from films?

 

276

00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,380

Uh, is that like there's

a piece of wardrobe?

 

277

00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:09,810

I mean, do you, do you, do you battle

the people in the wardrobe department

 

278

00:12:09,810 --> 00:12:10,620

going, I really want this stuff.

 

279

00:12:10,625 --> 00:12:10,645

Yeah.

 

280

00:12:10,645 --> 00:12:10,965

From the,

 

281

00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,310

Thomas Jane: from the ones that you

know, mean something and I feel like

 

282

00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:18,280

we, uh, did a great job then, uh,

I always take something that, of

 

283

00:12:18,540 --> 00:12:20,280

the character, you know, usually.

 

284

00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:23,970

Prop, um, with the expense.

 

285

00:12:23,970 --> 00:12:27,030

It definitely had to have that and

they were happy to give it to me.

 

286

00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:32,250

And, uh, you know, other shows, like,

uh, when I played Mickey Mantle in

 

287

00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:36,570

61, I've got my jersey, um, for that,

 

288

00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,720

Marc Preston: I got a couple of things

from The Punisher, you know, Mickey

 

289

00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,410

Mantle, I grew up in Dallas, and he

was, you know, there he was, he, he, he

 

290

00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:45,180

liked the drink from what I understand.

 

291

00:12:45,180 --> 00:12:48,570

So he would occasion my father would run

into him in different establishments.

 

292

00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:53,730

And so I have this box and I have a

number of Mickey Mantle autographs,

 

293

00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:56,110

you know, bar napkins, things,

you know, made out to me, right.

 

294

00:12:56,110 --> 00:12:57,900

I'm sitting there going,

and you just reminded me.

 

295

00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:00,360

I ne I want to go to a framing

place, get a picture of, you

 

296

00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:01,800

know, do kind of a cool frame.

 

297

00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,600

'cause I have all these Mickey Mantle.

 

298

00:13:03,975 --> 00:13:04,665

Oh, autographs.

 

299

00:13:04,725 --> 00:13:05,595

Yeah, you gotta do that.

 

300

00:13:05,655 --> 00:13:07,095

And he had such a unique,

uh, that's terrific.

 

301

00:13:07,185 --> 00:13:09,944

You know, it's kind of funny 'cause with

my signature, I didn't realize Right.

 

302

00:13:09,944 --> 00:13:12,585

To make our s similarly, I don't

know, it's just kind of a weird,

 

303

00:13:12,675 --> 00:13:17,115

Thomas Jane: you know, years after

he was a ball player, him and, uh,

 

304

00:13:17,324 --> 00:13:20,925

him and his two sons would sit around

a dining room table with a big box

 

305

00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:25,875

of baseballs and they would, um, all

three of them sign the Mickey Mantle

 

306

00:13:25,875 --> 00:13:29,475

signature and dump 'em into another box.

 

307

00:13:29,835 --> 00:13:30,194

Yeah.

 

308

00:13:30,194 --> 00:13:35,355

And then at every ball that went in,

there'd be like 20 bucks, 20 bucks, 20

 

309

00:13:35,355 --> 00:13:40,485

bucks, and they'd fill up a cardboard box

full of, uh, Mickey Mantle, uh, baseball.

 

310

00:13:40,485 --> 00:13:45,465

So when you're, you know, buying a

Mickey Mantle baseball and apparently

 

311

00:13:45,465 --> 00:13:47,475

the experts can tell the difference,

 

312

00:13:47,564 --> 00:13:49,245

Marc Preston: God, I saw

that a movie not long ago.

 

313

00:13:49,245 --> 00:13:51,944

Funny is like an athlete's kind

of on the, uh, back end of their

 

314

00:13:51,944 --> 00:13:54,285

career and that's kind of how

they're, you know, making the money.

 

315

00:13:54,285 --> 00:13:57,645

But what was it, you know, is that

for you playing someone, because

 

316

00:13:57,645 --> 00:14:01,395

you said character act, you're

used to really morphing and doing

 

317

00:14:01,395 --> 00:14:02,745

a reMarcably good job of it.

 

318

00:14:02,820 --> 00:14:06,630

But here you are playing a real dude

who had a real life and people know him.

 

319

00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,450

What was it like, you're playing,

you know, Mickey Mantle was it,

 

320

00:14:09,450 --> 00:14:12,870

was there like, are you gonna go

and do the research and, you know,

 

321

00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:14,820

talk to the people who knew him?

 

322

00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:16,440

I mean, how did you get that, uh, how

 

323

00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:16,620

Thomas Jane: did you

 

324

00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:16,890

Marc Preston: prepare

 

325

00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:17,040

Thomas Jane: for that?

 

326

00:14:17,225 --> 00:14:17,385

Absolutely.

 

327

00:14:17,390 --> 00:14:22,380

You do everyth everything and anything

you possibly can to as learn as much as

 

328

00:14:22,410 --> 00:14:28,050

you possibly can in the time that you

have, uh, before you, uh, start shooting,

 

329

00:14:28,050 --> 00:14:29,310

when you're building the character.

 

330

00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:34,380

And the thing that helped me the most

was working with Reggie Smith, who was a

 

331

00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:36,390

number two switch hitter behind mantle.

 

332

00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:43,620

Um, a a great baseball player

and, uh, and a truly great coach.

 

333

00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:45,990

You know, he, he's coach,

he coaches, and he's.

 

334

00:14:46,365 --> 00:14:49,485

Coached for years, I'm

sure he is still at it.

 

335

00:14:50,115 --> 00:14:54,435

Um, and he taught me how to swing like

mantle from both sides of the plate,

 

336

00:14:54,915 --> 00:15:00,105

you know, and I was out there every

day and it was some of the best times

 

337

00:15:00,105 --> 00:15:02,175

of my life learning how to play ball.

 

338

00:15:02,175 --> 00:15:02,295

Mm-hmm.

 

339

00:15:02,715 --> 00:15:05,625

And then, um, shooting

the movie, playing mantle.

 

340

00:15:06,195 --> 00:15:12,525

That was a particularly, um, I have fond

memories of, uh, of all that and very

 

341

00:15:12,525 --> 00:15:14,055

proud of the way the movie turned out.

 

342

00:15:14,055 --> 00:15:18,075

We got inducted into the

baseball Hall of Fame 61 did.

 

343

00:15:18,525 --> 00:15:19,005

Really?

 

344

00:15:19,005 --> 00:15:19,665

I didn't know that.

 

345

00:15:20,505 --> 00:15:20,625

Yeah.

 

346

00:15:20,625 --> 00:15:24,375

We went to Cooperstown and

had the ceremony with Billy.

 

347

00:15:24,375 --> 00:15:25,005

It was, it

 

348

00:15:25,005 --> 00:15:25,695

Marc Preston: was really fun.

 

349

00:15:25,965 --> 00:15:26,925

You know, it's so funny.

 

350

00:15:26,985 --> 00:15:29,895

Uh, I had, uh, this is one

of my favorite stories.

 

351

00:15:29,895 --> 00:15:34,215

I do a lot of voiceover in half for

many years, and I, uh, the, the back

 

352

00:15:34,215 --> 00:15:37,245

in 2003, they reached out to me.

 

353

00:15:37,245 --> 00:15:39,645

There's a producer who's doing this

big project for the Hall of Fame.

 

354

00:15:39,645 --> 00:15:40,905

He said, we want you to narrate it.

 

355

00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:44,790

The Hall of Fame wants James Earl

Jones because they're doing some kind

 

356

00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:45,990

of induction because of the movies.

 

357

00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:47,880

And they, they thought of, you

know, he said, I just don't think

 

358

00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,199

James Earl Jones is right for this.

 

359

00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:51,060

He's like, are you choosing

me over Darth Vader?

 

360

00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:51,479

Really?

 

361

00:15:51,479 --> 00:15:52,165

It's like, yeah.

 

362

00:15:52,604 --> 00:15:54,630

I was like, that is, that is so trippy.

 

363

00:15:54,630 --> 00:15:57,599

And then my grandfather, who was,

who's not in good, uh, he wasn't

 

364

00:15:57,599 --> 00:16:00,240

in good health and he didn't really

understand exactly what I did.

 

365

00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,569

And I flew back to Dallas and I

got my laptop and I got the video.

 

366

00:16:03,569 --> 00:16:07,110

That producer sent me the video

and he is like, oh, now I, okay,

 

367

00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:08,400

now he kinda gets it, you know?

 

368

00:16:09,270 --> 00:16:11,010

I say, Hey, your grandson's

in the Hall of Fame.

 

369

00:16:11,585 --> 00:16:15,005

I went in the most weird way possible,

but I've always wanted to go and I

 

370

00:16:15,005 --> 00:16:16,505

wanted to go see the project that we did.

 

371

00:16:16,505 --> 00:16:20,075

And I just really, I'm, yeah,

I'm a big, I'm a big baseball

 

372

00:16:20,075 --> 00:16:21,305

nerd of the, of the history.

 

373

00:16:21,305 --> 00:16:21,695

Big Mel.

 

374

00:16:21,905 --> 00:16:22,385

Big Nolan.

 

375

00:16:22,385 --> 00:16:22,475

Thomas Jane: Right.

 

376

00:16:22,475 --> 00:16:22,505

Okay.

 

377

00:16:22,505 --> 00:16:23,705

Well, you would love it.

 

378

00:16:23,705 --> 00:16:25,475

Cooperstown is beautiful.

 

379

00:16:25,475 --> 00:16:30,335

It's just like a throwback

1950s little town in New York.

 

380

00:16:30,335 --> 00:16:31,385

It's so cool.

 

381

00:16:31,625 --> 00:16:33,605

Marc Preston: Now, were you

a sporting kid growing up?

 

382

00:16:33,605 --> 00:16:36,245

Were you doing the, uh, athletic

thing or were you I played

 

383

00:16:36,245 --> 00:16:36,875

Thomas Jane: football.

 

384

00:16:36,995 --> 00:16:41,285

We didn't have any baseball,

which is, um, depressing because.

 

385

00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,310

And I was, I was being coached by Reggie.

 

386

00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:48,390

He, he told me one day toward the end,

he said, you know, if your dad had

 

387

00:16:48,390 --> 00:16:51,900

started you when you were four years

old, the way all these ball players,

 

388

00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:53,160

he goes, you could have had a shot.

 

389

00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:53,729

Really?

 

390

00:16:53,729 --> 00:16:55,859

You've got that thing that I can't teach.

 

391

00:16:55,949 --> 00:16:57,780

And that, uh, that meant a lot to me.

 

392

00:16:57,780 --> 00:16:58,979

What were you playing in football?

 

393

00:16:58,979 --> 00:17:00,569

What was, what was your position?

 

394

00:17:00,780 --> 00:17:04,619

I was like a tight end and a de

and a defensive end, you know?

 

395

00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:05,159

Yeah.

 

396

00:17:05,159 --> 00:17:07,020

I was, and it wasn't fast enough

 

397

00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:07,379

Marc Preston: and, you

 

398

00:17:07,379 --> 00:17:07,980

Thomas Jane: know, it was high

 

399

00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:08,550

Marc Preston: school football.

 

400

00:17:08,555 --> 00:17:08,724

Yeah.

 

401

00:17:08,724 --> 00:17:09,810

I, I was kinda the same way.

 

402

00:17:09,810 --> 00:17:12,510

I got to that point where I hurt my

knee and the doctor was like, is so

 

403

00:17:12,510 --> 00:17:15,389

we do this, a lateral release, little,

little tiny orthoscopic procedure

 

404

00:17:15,389 --> 00:17:16,230

in your back playing football.

 

405

00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:17,430

I'm like, listen, I'm not that good.

 

406

00:17:17,790 --> 00:17:21,480

You know, I'm actually B team at

best, you know, and, uh, you know,

 

407

00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,899

this is, and everybody's become way

faster than me, so this is not funny.

 

408

00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,950

Thomas Jane: Um, yeah, I almost

broke my neck on playing football.

 

409

00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:33,480

I was like in, in bed for like two weeks

'cause I've really messed my neck up.

 

410

00:17:33,659 --> 00:17:36,659

Uh, you know, and during a play,

they, it was one of those things

 

411

00:17:36,659 --> 00:17:40,409

where I, they had to bring in the

stretcher and pull me out and all that.

 

412

00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:44,900

Yeah, it was horrible when they

put me on all these terrible muscle

 

413

00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:48,140

relaxants and it just was awful.

 

414

00:17:48,290 --> 00:17:50,780

It was, the whole thing was, uh, bad.

 

415

00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:52,940

And this is back when

you were in high school?

 

416

00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:53,630

Yeah.

 

417

00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:54,890

Playing high school football.

 

418

00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:58,460

And we played for keeps, we were,

we were scrappy kids, you know,

 

419

00:17:58,490 --> 00:18:02,300

people were always getting our, you

know, we, this is back in the day,

 

420

00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:04,070

this is, you know, in the eighties.

 

421

00:18:04,190 --> 00:18:04,280

Mm-hmm.

 

422

00:18:04,525 --> 00:18:08,210

You could, you know, when

people, people played football.

 

423

00:18:08,215 --> 00:18:09,200

I mean, it was tough.

 

424

00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:09,380

Oh yeah.

 

425

00:18:09,380 --> 00:18:14,030

We were playing teams that were,

you know, from, they were, um, you

 

426

00:18:14,030 --> 00:18:16,860

know, eating cows for breakfast

and, you know, they came from the.

 

427

00:18:17,085 --> 00:18:19,395

It came from out in the farmland.

 

428

00:18:19,395 --> 00:18:22,245

I mean, we were playing some

really mean looking teams.

 

429

00:18:22,275 --> 00:18:23,235

It was amazing.

 

430

00:18:23,445 --> 00:18:26,175

You know, so did that kind of,

as high school boys get huge,

 

431

00:18:26,385 --> 00:18:26,595

Marc Preston: see?

 

432

00:18:26,595 --> 00:18:27,375

Oh yeah, yeah.

 

433

00:18:27,375 --> 00:18:29,685

That, that, that, that was

kind of the thing I was seeing.

 

434

00:18:29,685 --> 00:18:32,235

I was going, yeah, I'm not, I'm not

gonna be able to compete against this.

 

435

00:18:32,235 --> 00:18:34,005

This is not my, this is not my zone.

 

436

00:18:34,425 --> 00:18:37,635

Uh, but was that, that kind of

precipitate the, the move into

 

437

00:18:37,635 --> 00:18:39,255

the theatrical side of things?

 

438

00:18:39,255 --> 00:18:42,585

Were you doing the theater in high

school or was it just kinda a Yeah, I

 

439

00:18:42,585 --> 00:18:44,835

Thomas Jane: was also messing

around with the art kids.

 

440

00:18:44,835 --> 00:18:46,695

And I love, I love the art kids.

 

441

00:18:46,695 --> 00:18:48,015

You know, I was an outsider.

 

442

00:18:48,015 --> 00:18:49,455

I've always been an outsider.

 

443

00:18:49,455 --> 00:18:51,765

I got put into school late.

 

444

00:18:52,125 --> 00:18:58,335

Um, so I was sort of a, the stranger, you

know, we moved to a new town, I was eight.

 

445

00:18:58,335 --> 00:19:04,245

And I, I just have never fit in

with, uh, with people, which is,

 

446

00:19:04,245 --> 00:19:06,675

you know, depressing at times.

 

447

00:19:06,675 --> 00:19:09,055

But I'm also okay with it.

 

448

00:19:09,825 --> 00:19:15,495

I, I'm just terrible in a crowd or at a

party or, you know, thi things like that.

 

449

00:19:15,585 --> 00:19:18,525

And it hasn't really gotten any

better as I've gotten older.

 

450

00:19:18,525 --> 00:19:22,005

It's just, I'm just not,

I'm just an outsider.

 

451

00:19:22,065 --> 00:19:26,865

And, uh, and the advantage of being an

outsider is that you become an observer.

 

452

00:19:27,495 --> 00:19:27,825

Mm-hmm.

 

453

00:19:28,305 --> 00:19:33,255

Thomas Jane: Um, not participating

in the, uh, insanity that humans do.

 

454

00:19:33,255 --> 00:19:37,065

I mean, I'd, I'd love to, it, it sounds,

it looks great, you know, everybody's

 

455

00:19:37,065 --> 00:19:43,215

laughing and being stupid and, uh, and,

and nobody can remember what the hell

 

456

00:19:43,215 --> 00:19:45,105

they were talking about the next day.

 

457

00:19:45,795 --> 00:19:51,890

Um, but, uh, I'm, I've just, it

made me an ob an observer of, uh.

 

458

00:19:52,875 --> 00:19:56,535

Human nature, uh, and society.

 

459

00:19:56,775 --> 00:20:01,995

And, uh, it gets me thinking

about that, that kind of thing.

 

460

00:20:01,995 --> 00:20:06,495

I spend an awful long, too much

time contemplating the future of

 

461

00:20:06,495 --> 00:20:08,625

human society where we're going.

 

462

00:20:08,835 --> 00:20:15,555

Can we, what would it take to sort of

transform us into a sustainable, um,

 

463

00:20:15,615 --> 00:20:19,785

coherent society with an actual, um.

 

464

00:20:20,370 --> 00:20:22,320

Common purpose,

 

465

00:20:22,379 --> 00:20:23,550

Marc Preston: you know, things like that.

 

466

00:20:24,179 --> 00:20:26,280

I feel you 110% on that.

 

467

00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:26,429

Yeah.

 

468

00:20:26,429 --> 00:20:30,149

In fact, you know, doing what you do,

I, I identify you have to almost be a

 

469

00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:33,810

little bit of a extroverted introvert

because you'd have to find yourself

 

470

00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:36,689

in different situations, but you have

to have that recharge moment with you.

 

471

00:20:36,695 --> 00:20:37,235

Thomas Jane: It's been tough.

 

472

00:20:37,455 --> 00:20:38,610

That's been tough.

 

473

00:20:38,669 --> 00:20:39,000

Yeah.

 

474

00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:42,959

That's probably the hardest thing

for me is, um, you know, is the,

 

475

00:20:42,959 --> 00:20:45,479

uh, the people aspect of it all.

 

476

00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:49,620

I, I could probably make great

movies with AI on my computer,

 

477

00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:55,379

um, but no, as an actor, you have

to perform in front of people.

 

478

00:20:55,439 --> 00:20:58,439

Uh, I, I, I took a lot of training for me.

 

479

00:20:58,439 --> 00:21:02,669

You know, I knew that I needed a lot of

actors that you've, they have natural

 

480

00:21:02,669 --> 00:21:08,010

talent and they can, like my daughter,

she, she's trained, she's gone to school.

 

481

00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:12,629

Um, but she is natural talent and she

can get up in front of people and.

 

482

00:21:13,155 --> 00:21:13,905

Do her thing.

 

483

00:21:14,504 --> 00:21:19,605

But I had to go to school for a long time

to just learn how to stand up on stage

 

484

00:21:20,085 --> 00:21:21,495

Marc Preston: in front

of other human beings.

 

485

00:21:21,554 --> 00:21:24,615

Now was all your training in Los

Angeles or were you, did you kick

 

486

00:21:24,615 --> 00:21:26,054

it off, uh, back in Maryland?

 

487

00:21:26,385 --> 00:21:26,685

Thomas Jane: Yeah.

 

488

00:21:26,685 --> 00:21:29,745

Well, I was in the high

school, uh, theater department.

 

489

00:21:29,745 --> 00:21:31,185

That was my first play.

 

490

00:21:31,485 --> 00:21:36,615

I was actually building the sets, um,

for the high school play, because that's

 

491

00:21:36,615 --> 00:21:38,655

what the art kids did, the art nerds.

 

492

00:21:38,985 --> 00:21:43,155

We, we painted the sets and built

them, and it was so much fun.

 

493

00:21:43,155 --> 00:21:48,074

It was, you know, after school it gave,

we had a great group of nerdy kids.

 

494

00:21:48,705 --> 00:21:53,625

Um, and, but then I was always cutting

up and playing practical jokes and

 

495

00:21:53,625 --> 00:22:00,044

stuff, and so they, they, um, we, we

cocked this, we hatched this plan to, uh.

 

496

00:22:01,379 --> 00:22:04,500

Destroy the set in the middle of the show.

 

497

00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:08,340

We were gonna sort of rope attach

it to, to ropes and pull the whole

 

498

00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:09,810

set down in the middle of the show.

 

499

00:22:09,810 --> 00:22:13,740

We thought it would be hilarious,

but we needed an inside man.

 

500

00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:19,889

We needed a guy on stage to, to affect

this elaborate plan that we cooked up.

 

501

00:22:20,429 --> 00:22:21,990

So that was gonna be me.

 

502

00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:26,070

So I was like, you need to go and

audition and get a part in that play

 

503

00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:28,919

and then we'll have our inside man.

 

504

00:22:28,919 --> 00:22:34,139

And so I did and I got a part in

the play, which probably wasn't

 

505

00:22:34,139 --> 00:22:35,919

too difficult, but, but, uh.

 

506

00:22:36,855 --> 00:22:40,965

So as I rehearsed this thing,

it was a vaudeville sketch.

 

507

00:22:40,995 --> 00:22:46,905

We, it was a night of old time vaudeville

sketches that our wonderful, uh, Mr.

 

508

00:22:46,905 --> 00:22:52,245

Brodsky, our drama department

and English teacher put together.

 

509

00:22:52,575 --> 00:22:56,445

And we got to learn all of these

fantastic old vaudeville acts.

 

510

00:22:56,985 --> 00:23:00,705

And the one that I, uh, learned

was called Niagara Falls, which

 

511

00:23:00,705 --> 00:23:02,355

is a brilliant little skit.

 

512

00:23:03,105 --> 00:23:07,155

And it, it was a very famous vaudeville

act that people did all over the country

 

513

00:23:07,155 --> 00:23:09,495

and all little theaters and big theaters.

 

514

00:23:10,035 --> 00:23:13,425

Um, I, uh.

 

515

00:23:13,875 --> 00:23:15,315

Was it Laurel and Hardy?

 

516

00:23:15,585 --> 00:23:17,505

So a couple of famous guys did it.

 

517

00:23:18,135 --> 00:23:23,625

Um, anyway, so that was my thing, and

as I, you know, was rehearsing this

 

518

00:23:23,625 --> 00:23:25,875

thing, I just got more and more into it.

 

519

00:23:25,875 --> 00:23:28,545

And by the time opening night

came, I said, you know what fellas?

 

520

00:23:28,545 --> 00:23:31,005

This whole like, poll and the

set down thing that's off.

 

521

00:23:31,125 --> 00:23:33,705

Marc Preston: Yeah, I was about to

say, I a feeling once you kind of

 

522

00:23:33,705 --> 00:23:37,480

get into it, once you start like, you

know, uh, becoming a part of it, I

 

523

00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,305

Thomas Jane: wanna do this, I wanna do

this, uh, this scene in front of people.

 

524

00:23:40,755 --> 00:23:41,565

And we did.

 

525

00:23:41,565 --> 00:23:44,595

And uh, and I just had such a great time.

 

526

00:23:44,595 --> 00:23:50,055

I thought, okay, I, I know what, I know

what I wanna do with my life and um, and

 

527

00:23:50,055 --> 00:23:51,915

now I don't need to go to school anymore.

 

528

00:23:51,945 --> 00:23:52,035

Mm-hmm.

 

529

00:23:52,275 --> 00:23:55,665

Because isn't cool to, to like train

you to do stuff with your life.

 

530

00:23:55,665 --> 00:23:56,775

It's like, I got this covered.

 

531

00:23:56,775 --> 00:23:57,945

So I dropped outta high school.

 

532

00:24:05,055 --> 00:24:07,245

Marc Preston: So you made that

commitment to yourself, like,

 

533

00:24:07,245 --> 00:24:08,355

this is the, this is my thing.

 

534

00:24:08,445 --> 00:24:12,615

Thomas Jane: Dropped outta high

school and, uh, my mom found a, uh,

 

535

00:24:12,735 --> 00:24:15,315

an acting class in Bethesda, Maryland.

 

536

00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:18,975

And so I started taking the

train down to Bethesda every day.

 

537

00:24:18,975 --> 00:24:22,785

And with these adults, I was the youngest

kid in the class, but it was a full-time

 

538

00:24:22,785 --> 00:24:25,125

class, you know, it was five days a week.

 

539

00:24:25,125 --> 00:24:28,125

And so your folks embraced

your, uh, your new founder?

 

540

00:24:28,425 --> 00:24:30,015

No, they absolutely hated it.

 

541

00:24:30,015 --> 00:24:33,075

They thought I'd gone insane,

but I refused to go to school.

 

542

00:24:33,075 --> 00:24:34,005

So what are they gonna do?

 

543

00:24:34,740 --> 00:24:37,620

I was 16, 15, I think I was 15.

 

544

00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:38,399

Yeah, really,

 

545

00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:39,360

Marc Preston: I, I had the same thing.

 

546

00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,540

I knew I wanted to do, like, work

in radio and I'd started when I was

 

547

00:24:42,540 --> 00:24:45,780

in high school, uh, working, you

know, doing pretty okay actually.

 

548

00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,030

And I went to college going,

what, what am I doing here?

 

549

00:24:48,030 --> 00:24:50,699

Because I already am doing the

thing I want to do, you know?

 

550

00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:53,340

So I understand that restless

thing when you're doing, you

 

551

00:24:53,399 --> 00:24:54,300

know, what you want to do.

 

552

00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:54,480

And

 

553

00:24:54,689 --> 00:24:56,820

Thomas Jane: look, if you

know what you wanna do, do it.

 

554

00:24:57,210 --> 00:24:57,720

Okay?

 

555

00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,780

And school is only going

to turn you into a monkey.

 

556

00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,879

Don't un unless you're really into

being a doctor or a physicist,

 

557

00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:10,679

or a mathematician or something

that requires serious training.

 

558

00:25:11,550 --> 00:25:17,250

Um, then school is great and find the

best people and, and soak it up, you know?

 

559

00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:24,510

But if you got some other ideas, if that's

not where your talent lies, then um.

 

560

00:25:24,929 --> 00:25:28,980

School is meant to create

workers out of people.

 

561

00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,840

And this is an open letter from the

Rockefeller, uh, himself, uh, to

 

562

00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,460

the president back in the back when

industrialization was just kicking in.

 

563

00:25:38,460 --> 00:25:40,230

And it's right there in black and white.

 

564

00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:41,850

You can read it on the internet.

 

565

00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,429

We need a nation of workers.

 

566

00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:44,639

Mm-hmm.

 

567

00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:51,270

And he, he said, I suggest we adopt,

adopt the Prussian school system because

 

568

00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:56,399

in Prussia they were having this horrible

problem where every few years there

 

569

00:25:56,399 --> 00:25:58,560

would be a revolt and a revolution.

 

570

00:25:59,010 --> 00:26:02,730

And they figured out that the older

kids were teaching the younger kids

 

571

00:26:02,730 --> 00:26:04,379

what was wrong with the country.

 

572

00:26:04,530 --> 00:26:07,470

So they then the, when the,

when the younger kids got old

 

573

00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:08,730

enough, they would revolt.

 

574

00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,550

So what they did was they

separated everybody by age.

 

575

00:26:15,074 --> 00:26:20,114

And then they gave them a master who would

punish them, and they conditioned these

 

576

00:26:20,114 --> 00:26:26,715

children to do meaningless work, uh, to

keep them occupied, uh, fill their brains

 

577

00:26:26,715 --> 00:26:31,185

with a bunch of nonsense and separate

the older kids from the younger kids.

 

578

00:26:31,215 --> 00:26:34,574

So the older kids couldn't teach

the younger kids what was going on.

 

579

00:26:34,754 --> 00:26:35,685

And it worked.

 

580

00:26:35,685 --> 00:26:38,054

Really, the revolutions stopped.

 

581

00:26:38,054 --> 00:26:38,114

Huh?

 

582

00:26:38,925 --> 00:26:39,135

So.

 

583

00:26:39,945 --> 00:26:45,105

Rockefeller says, I suggest we adopt

this system and institute it all

 

584

00:26:45,105 --> 00:26:47,595

around America because we need workers.

 

585

00:26:47,865 --> 00:26:48,405

Period.

 

586

00:26:48,495 --> 00:26:50,205

I mean, that's the story folks,

 

587

00:26:50,205 --> 00:26:51,405

Marc Preston: and it hasn't changed.

 

588

00:26:51,705 --> 00:26:53,235

Well, what I found was very interesting.

 

589

00:26:53,235 --> 00:26:55,515

I think we're kind of getting

a little bit away from it.

 

590

00:26:55,515 --> 00:26:59,100

There is a period of time and uh,

you remember the movie, uh, uh,

 

591

00:26:59,105 --> 00:27:02,955

uh, office Space came out that was

kind of like the pinnacle of that.

 

592

00:27:02,955 --> 00:27:04,845

Like, we don't care what degree you have.

 

593

00:27:04,850 --> 00:27:04,980

Great.

 

594

00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:05,300

Thomas Jane: I think I

 

595

00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:05,980

Marc Preston: auditioned for

 

596

00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:06,140

Thomas Jane: that.

 

597

00:27:06,315 --> 00:27:09,045

I love that script and I really

wanted to be in it, but I'm

 

598

00:27:09,045 --> 00:27:10,425

just, you know, it wasn't my bag.

 

599

00:27:10,605 --> 00:27:10,815

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

600

00:27:10,815 --> 00:27:11,175

Yeah.

 

601

00:27:11,175 --> 00:27:11,475

Go ahead.

 

602

00:27:11,475 --> 00:27:15,075

You know what, it was just like at a time

when, uh, you know, you need a degree.

 

603

00:27:15,075 --> 00:27:16,485

They don't care what the degree is.

 

604

00:27:16,485 --> 00:27:17,415

You just have to have it.

 

605

00:27:17,415 --> 00:27:18,675

It's almost like, okay, well.

 

606

00:27:19,395 --> 00:27:21,165

It's, things just aren't connecting.

 

607

00:27:21,165 --> 00:27:24,975

So you kind of realize we're in a, a phase

now where some of the big tech companies,

 

608

00:27:24,975 --> 00:27:28,514

some of the more savvy companies

going, well, you don't need a degree.

 

609

00:27:28,574 --> 00:27:29,149

You know, we certainly don't.

 

610

00:27:29,534 --> 00:27:33,794

And uh, you know, it's, of course

education has its place as we discussed,

 

611

00:27:33,794 --> 00:27:36,860

but that's one of the things I'm, I'm

wondering really doesn't, well, I mean,

 

612

00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:39,495

if you wanna be a doctor or something

like that, of course, but you know,

 

613

00:27:39,495 --> 00:27:42,375

otherwise it's like, you know, the

amount of debt that's being accrued.

 

614

00:27:42,375 --> 00:27:45,254

Luckily my kids, you know, they

had themselves a scholarship

 

615

00:27:45,254 --> 00:27:46,514

'cause they're way smarter than me.

 

616

00:27:46,514 --> 00:27:47,955

But, um Right.

 

617

00:27:47,955 --> 00:27:50,745

But, uh, you know, I'm curious,

when did you make that, I mean,

 

618

00:27:50,745 --> 00:27:53,895

making that move to LA when, how

old were you when you, uh, headed

 

619

00:27:53,895 --> 00:27:54,344

Thomas Jane: west?

 

620

00:27:54,645 --> 00:27:59,235

I was, uh, 16, but now you got me

thinking about the debt situation.

 

621

00:27:59,235 --> 00:28:00,254

So let me tell you about that.

 

622

00:28:00,344 --> 00:28:00,405

So.

 

623

00:28:02,715 --> 00:28:07,065

The 1960s were a period

of incredible revolution.

 

624

00:28:07,065 --> 00:28:10,245

It was a, it was a

consciousness raising period.

 

625

00:28:10,245 --> 00:28:13,935

People were learning, they were

breaking away from the establishment.

 

626

00:28:13,965 --> 00:28:19,365

They called it that the establishment,

they grow their hair along and, uh,

 

627

00:28:19,395 --> 00:28:23,895

they were getting together and they

were protesting and they knew that the

 

628

00:28:23,895 --> 00:28:27,975

country was screwed up and they knew

everything that was wrong with it.

 

629

00:28:28,425 --> 00:28:32,295

And the Vietnam War, of course, really

drove these kids 'cause they, it,

 

630

00:28:32,445 --> 00:28:35,985

they knew, understood that it was a

meaningless war and they didn't feel like

 

631

00:28:35,985 --> 00:28:37,995

running, being drafted, and going to die.

 

632

00:28:37,995 --> 00:28:43,365

It, so the, the revolt, the revolution

that happened was the closest we've

 

633

00:28:43,365 --> 00:28:45,675

come to a real social revolution.

 

634

00:28:45,675 --> 00:28:45,885

Mm-hmm.

 

635

00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,855

Government, the people who are in

power figured out these kids are

 

636

00:28:51,855 --> 00:28:57,710

going to school for free college if

you bag groceries three days a week.

 

637

00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,350

Then you have enough money to

put yourself through college.

 

638

00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:01,770

Oh, you know?

 

639

00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:02,040

Yeah.

 

640

00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:03,210

Part-time job.

 

641

00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,850

You know, five days a week

will put you through school.

 

642

00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:10,080

Um, and they had all this time

on their hands to get together in

 

643

00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,440

church basements and pro figure

out what was wrong and protest.

 

644

00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:20,175

So I. S suddenly the tuitions started

going up and up and up putting these

 

645

00:29:20,175 --> 00:29:26,205

kids in debt, making them get full-time

jobs and no longer have any time to,

 

646

00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:31,335

to, to even to think or worry about

what's messed up about the country.

 

647

00:29:31,875 --> 00:29:32,055

So

 

648

00:29:32,055 --> 00:29:33,675

Marc Preston: that's, uh,

that's how that happened.

 

649

00:29:33,825 --> 00:29:39,345

You know, my kids, you know, 20, 22,

21, and 20, almost 20, and it's like,

 

650

00:29:39,345 --> 00:29:42,735

I talked to 'em, it's like, you know

what are with AI and all that stuff.

 

651

00:29:42,735 --> 00:29:45,764

I'm like, okay, is school more

important or is it less important?

 

652

00:29:45,764 --> 00:29:48,975

It, it's really a weird time we're

in right now, but going back to

 

653

00:29:48,975 --> 00:29:52,695

the sixties, everything was a

confluence of, you had music and

 

654

00:29:52,695 --> 00:29:54,645

culture and everything was kind of.

 

655

00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,770

Angling and like it was a disruptive,

and it was, you know, that makes sense.

 

656

00:29:58,770 --> 00:29:59,010

It was a

 

657

00:29:59,225 --> 00:30:03,120

Thomas Jane: disruptor and we had to

install, uh, you know, guardrails to

 

658

00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,650

make sure that didn't happen again.

 

659

00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,780

And you're right, the ai, you know, now

the, I think the hope is that if we can

 

660

00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:17,520

create, uh, a decentralized system and

we could do it through the internet, um,

 

661

00:30:17,670 --> 00:30:20,070

then we, we, we could change the world.

 

662

00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:25,560

I mean, there's, there's all kinds of

opportunities to be created with, uh.

 

663

00:30:25,645 --> 00:30:31,045

Time bartering, um, through the internet,

you know, if you've got a skill or stuff.

 

664

00:30:31,045 --> 00:30:34,254

I mean, you see it, you know, with

people, uh, trading stuff, you

 

665

00:30:34,254 --> 00:30:36,385

know, online, they're trading stuff.

 

666

00:30:36,385 --> 00:30:37,915

They're like, I've got an old stereo.

 

667

00:30:37,915 --> 00:30:38,605

I don't want it.

 

668

00:30:39,235 --> 00:30:44,605

You know, and, uh, but I'm, I need

to put new hubcaps on my 56 Corvette.

 

669

00:30:44,605 --> 00:30:45,410

Does anybody have?

 

670

00:30:45,504 --> 00:30:49,675

And then, so they're swapping stuff,

but it doesn't have to end with stuff.

 

671

00:30:49,675 --> 00:30:51,895

It can end with, you know, skills.

 

672

00:30:52,045 --> 00:30:52,135

Mm-hmm.

 

673

00:30:52,375 --> 00:30:56,815

It can, it can, we can start, we can

start a kind of a distributed system

 

674

00:30:56,845 --> 00:31:00,145

where money doesn't become as important.

 

675

00:31:00,175 --> 00:31:05,155

We still need it for some things, but it's

kind of a, kind of a Star Trek culture.

 

676

00:31:05,155 --> 00:31:08,935

Sort of a, you know, which

we could be heading for.

 

677

00:31:08,935 --> 00:31:12,264

We could create that, but we

have to create it and nobody's

 

678

00:31:12,264 --> 00:31:13,915

gonna be, you know, helping us.

 

679

00:31:14,245 --> 00:31:15,145

They don't like that.

 

680

00:31:15,325 --> 00:31:18,445

They don't like that system, which I

think is why we're starting to see more.

 

681

00:31:19,155 --> 00:31:24,854

Uh, attempts at, uh, censorship and, you

know, digital ID and all this nuttiness

 

682

00:31:24,854 --> 00:31:26,685

that people should really avoid.

 

683

00:31:27,225 --> 00:31:27,584

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

684

00:31:27,614 --> 00:31:28,030

We like

 

685

00:31:28,030 --> 00:31:28,590

Thomas Jane: the plague.

 

686

00:31:28,995 --> 00:31:29,264

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

687

00:31:29,264 --> 00:31:32,625

I, you know, I think I was fortunate that

when I was in high school, I actually had

 

688

00:31:32,625 --> 00:31:36,735

a few good te you know, teachers, ones

that would kind of break away from the

 

689

00:31:36,735 --> 00:31:40,485

curriculum, just getting into discussions

and kinda lets your, you know, your brain

 

690

00:31:40,485 --> 00:31:44,594

breathe and like, really, you know, talk

about those are life changing as a kid.

 

691

00:31:44,594 --> 00:31:46,215

That's life changing stuff.

 

692

00:31:46,245 --> 00:31:50,114

So I'm remembering, I'm remembering

ninth, 10th, 11th grade, you know,

 

693

00:31:50,114 --> 00:31:53,175

different government and history classes

and the moment we're in right now, I'm

 

694

00:31:53,175 --> 00:31:55,725

going, oh, I read about stuff like that.

 

695

00:31:55,725 --> 00:31:56,504

I remember that.

 

696

00:31:56,504 --> 00:31:59,229

You know, industrial

Revolution, the, all the right.

 

697

00:31:59,795 --> 00:32:03,365

And the robber bar, the robber

barons and all that jazz, you know?

 

698

00:32:03,365 --> 00:32:03,455

Right.

 

699

00:32:03,485 --> 00:32:03,995

Thomas Jane: Yeah.

 

700

00:32:04,385 --> 00:32:08,735

Notice how they changed the laws so that,

you know, the, the, uh, when they broke up

 

701

00:32:08,735 --> 00:32:11,585

all the monopolies that they had mm-hmm.

 

702

00:32:11,585 --> 00:32:15,095

There were big laws about monopoly

breaking, but we've gotten around

 

703

00:32:15,095 --> 00:32:17,315

those in the digital world.

 

704

00:32:17,345 --> 00:32:17,435

Mm-hmm.

 

705

00:32:17,675 --> 00:32:18,665

They don't apply.

 

706

00:32:19,265 --> 00:32:25,745

So the, the monopolies are back and, uh,

I don't see the, uh, the gusto that they

 

707

00:32:25,745 --> 00:32:31,625

had to, to break up the digital monopolies

because, uh, the digital monopolies offer,

 

708

00:32:32,105 --> 00:32:34,985

uh, much more control over the population.

 

709

00:32:35,255 --> 00:32:38,225

Marc Preston: So that's, well, that's

really interesting, uh, in your industry.

 

710

00:32:38,774 --> 00:32:40,514

Uh, that, that, that has changed.

 

711

00:32:40,514 --> 00:32:43,365

And it's, it's like you have two

different, for you have the big corporate

 

712

00:32:43,365 --> 00:32:46,485

thing happening, the mergers and all

that, but you also have, you know, people

 

713

00:32:46,485 --> 00:32:49,814

being able to go out, create a thing, put

it online, you know, very democratized.

 

714

00:32:49,814 --> 00:32:49,875

I'm

 

715

00:32:49,875 --> 00:32:52,094

Thomas Jane: hoping that

that is what happens.

 

716

00:32:52,094 --> 00:32:55,605

What we, you know, what we,

here's, it's a skillset.

 

717

00:32:56,175 --> 00:32:56,685

Okay?

 

718

00:32:56,685 --> 00:33:00,044

Now, just because you can make

great images does not mean

 

719

00:33:00,044 --> 00:33:01,365

you can tell a great story.

 

720

00:33:01,365 --> 00:33:01,425

Yeah.

 

721

00:33:01,455 --> 00:33:03,314

That's a whole other skillset.

 

722

00:33:03,314 --> 00:33:05,625

But people have that skillset.

 

723

00:33:05,685 --> 00:33:09,135

The same people that grow up and

come out to Hollywood and, and,

 

724

00:33:09,135 --> 00:33:13,514

uh, become directors and producers

and actors, uh, and writers and

 

725

00:33:13,514 --> 00:33:16,485

editors, um, and everything else.

 

726

00:33:16,514 --> 00:33:22,425

Those skills, those skills, those

talents exist, and the computer,

 

727

00:33:22,510 --> 00:33:27,044

what, what we're able to do in

image creation is just another tool.

 

728

00:33:27,615 --> 00:33:29,504

Um, you still need the talent.

 

729

00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:33,990

Uh, to be able to use it, you know,

it, it really is just another tool

 

730

00:33:34,949 --> 00:33:37,110

like sampling music, sampling.

 

731

00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:40,620

When people started grabbing

little snippets of other songs

 

732

00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:41,879

and putting 'em into their songs.

 

733

00:33:41,879 --> 00:33:44,100

Like people just lost their

minds in the beginning.

 

734

00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,189

They're like, you can't steal,

you know, those, that, that

 

735

00:33:47,189 --> 00:33:48,870

chorus and throw it into a song.

 

736

00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:50,699

But it just became another tool.

 

737

00:33:50,699 --> 00:33:53,250

And when it's done really

well, it's, it's, um,

 

738

00:33:53,399 --> 00:33:56,340

Marc Preston: you know, people talk about

AI and I, I understand it's gonna be the

 

739

00:33:56,340 --> 00:34:01,379

new toy for a lot of people, but I think

inherently, uh, like just the world of

 

740

00:34:01,379 --> 00:34:04,860

voiceover that I've floated in for many

years, I remember 30 years ago people

 

741

00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:09,449

were saying words like non announcer,

real person, conversational, authentic,

 

742

00:34:09,449 --> 00:34:12,900

you know, that's what they 'cause PE

we have a craving for authenticity.

 

743

00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:15,900

So that's the reason why I

think that AI's got, uh, you

 

744

00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:17,190

know, it does have a shelf life.

 

745

00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:21,000

I think it only lasts until people get

really hungry for that authenticity again.

 

746

00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,620

Then I think things will, you know,

 

747

00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:25,240

Thomas Jane: I think the

authenticity is there's gonna be

 

748

00:34:25,739 --> 00:34:28,590

a real hunger for real people.

 

749

00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:36,409

Telling real stories about real life and

the real emotions and experiences, those

 

750

00:34:36,409 --> 00:34:42,350

cathartic moments that you're able to

have when you watch a story about, uh, and

 

751

00:34:42,350 --> 00:34:47,659

you believe it, you know, you have great

acting and wonderful, uh, story to tell.

 

752

00:34:47,659 --> 00:34:53,330

That is, I think is, is we're

gonna see, um, stories start

 

753

00:34:53,330 --> 00:34:54,409

to move in that direction.

 

754

00:34:54,409 --> 00:34:57,680

I could see another period

that we had in the nineties

 

755

00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,840

when independent film exploded.

 

756

00:34:59,840 --> 00:34:59,900

Yeah.

 

757

00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:02,630

And Sundance became a, a big thing.

 

758

00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:08,135

I think that we could be heading

for another period like that just

 

759

00:35:08,135 --> 00:35:09,980

because of exactly what you, I've been

feeling that, I've been feeling the

 

760

00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:11,780

Marc Preston: same way also

because I'm going, what's next?

 

761

00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:12,230

What's next?

 

762

00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:14,420

Even back to Paul Thomas

Sanders, you know, boogie Nights.

 

763

00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,720

That was considered a, an

independent film, was it not?

 

764

00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:18,710

I mean, for its time.

 

765

00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:19,400

Thomas Jane: Yeah.

 

766

00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,720

That was right in the pocket of the

kind of movies that were getting a

 

767

00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:27,560

lot of attention because they were

independent anti-establishment against.

 

768

00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:35,460

The grain, um, uh, quirky, uh,

oddball sort of stories that you

 

769

00:35:35,460 --> 00:35:39,690

could tell and, and that, and

it had a real, a real moment.

 

770

00:35:39,690 --> 00:35:44,640

I think those are gonna come back and, uh,

I think Hollywood will also follow along.

 

771

00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,970

I just saw a movie last

night called Song, song Blue.

 

772

00:35:48,089 --> 00:35:48,330

Mm-hmm.

 

773

00:35:48,839 --> 00:35:54,330

And, um, it's, I didn't re uh, uh,

about half, there's so many crazy

 

774

00:35:54,330 --> 00:35:55,920

things that happened in that movie.

 

775

00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,080

I thought, who the hell wrote this thing?

 

776

00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,830

And then I, at the end, I discovered

that it was based on a real

 

777

00:36:01,830 --> 00:36:07,305

story, a true story about these

impersonators Neil Diamond impersonate.

 

778

00:36:07,310 --> 00:36:07,950

It's brilliant.

 

779

00:36:08,279 --> 00:36:12,359

But what I loved about it was,

it it, after I walked out of that

 

780

00:36:12,359 --> 00:36:15,450

movie and I thought, the, this

is the kind of movie that's gonna

 

781

00:36:15,450 --> 00:36:18,690

save Hollywood, uh, because it's.

 

782

00:36:19,170 --> 00:36:24,750

It's about real people, and it has

craft, masterfully told stories

 

783

00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:29,549

that where you get to experience,

um, real emotions and real human

 

784

00:36:29,549 --> 00:36:31,259

beings that's not going anywhere.

 

785

00:36:32,430 --> 00:36:34,859

Marc Preston: Well, have you thought,

I even, of course, being in front of

 

786

00:36:34,859 --> 00:36:38,009

the camera, but is there ever, has

there ever been an inclination for

 

787

00:36:38,009 --> 00:36:40,799

you to say, okay, I wanna produce, I

wanna dry, I wanna create something

 

788

00:36:40,799 --> 00:36:42,720

I think is kind of missing right now.

 

789

00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:44,069

Have you ever had that itch?

 

790

00:36:44,279 --> 00:36:44,640

Oh, that's,

 

791

00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:46,200

Thomas Jane: that's what we're doing.

 

792

00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,270

I've got a company called Renegade

and um, we produced a show for

 

793

00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:53,670

TRO for, for Amazon called Troppo.

 

794

00:36:54,029 --> 00:36:54,270

Mm-hmm.

 

795

00:36:54,750 --> 00:36:56,580

Uh, which we developed and produced.

 

796

00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:59,250

And it was based on, that's

one in Australia or, uh.

 

797

00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:00,029

Yeah.

 

798

00:37:00,060 --> 00:37:00,299

Okay.

 

799

00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:00,900

Shot it.

 

800

00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:05,250

No, it's based on a, on a, on an

Australian author named Candace Fox.

 

801

00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:06,180

Terrific.

 

802

00:37:06,750 --> 00:37:07,950

Called Crimson Lake.

 

803

00:37:08,009 --> 00:37:12,420

Um, he, she created these great couple

of characters, you know, a burnt out,

 

804

00:37:12,540 --> 00:37:18,240

a detective who was on the lam and, uh,

this crazy lady who had spent 10 years

 

805

00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:19,859

in prison for killing her best friend.

 

806

00:37:20,190 --> 00:37:23,549

And they hook up and become

this unlikely detective duo.

 

807

00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:24,900

It was so much fun.

 

808

00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:30,660

And, um, it got, it, made it to

number four on Amazon, uh, was in

 

809

00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:34,230

the top 10 for 10 weeks, you know,

and we were behind fallout, you

 

810

00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:36,015

know, we, we, and this is, oh, okay.

 

811

00:37:36,270 --> 00:37:42,690

This is, this is smaller budget, um,

dramatic, uh, storytelling, which

 

812

00:37:42,690 --> 00:37:45,270

is, which is exactly what I wanna do.

 

813

00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:48,750

So we're creating a couple of other shows.

 

814

00:37:48,839 --> 00:37:51,120

Um, I've also got a graphic novel.

 

815

00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,660

I've, I did graphic novels about

10 years ago, and I'm back.

 

816

00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:56,759

So I've got a werewolf book.

 

817

00:37:57,195 --> 00:37:59,925

Out on Comicology, which is on Amazon.

 

818

00:37:59,925 --> 00:38:01,665

You can read it on your Kindle.

 

819

00:38:01,875 --> 00:38:02,175

Really?

 

820

00:38:02,175 --> 00:38:02,235

Yeah.

 

821

00:38:02,265 --> 00:38:02,445

But

 

822

00:38:02,445 --> 00:38:04,605

Thomas Jane: it's called the

Li it's called the Lichen.

 

823

00:38:04,965 --> 00:38:07,905

Marc Preston: That's something I'd

like to find a little bit more about.

 

824

00:38:07,905 --> 00:38:08,715

You know, I never, graphic

 

825

00:38:08,715 --> 00:38:13,185

Thomas Jane: novels are, uh, one, uh,

just to, you know, I, I'm, I'm trying

 

826

00:38:13,185 --> 00:38:17,655

to make sure that they stay alive and

people, uh, you know, can read, read.

 

827

00:38:17,655 --> 00:38:21,795

Comic people are not, aren't

even reading comic books anymore.

 

828

00:38:21,795 --> 00:38:24,855

You know, you know, something's

up when, uh, you can't even get

 

829

00:38:24,855 --> 00:38:26,205

somebody to read a comic book.

 

830

00:38:26,205 --> 00:38:29,595

Back in the day, you were like, why

are you reading those comic books?

 

831

00:38:29,595 --> 00:38:31,005

Why don't you read a real book?

 

832

00:38:31,665 --> 00:38:34,815

That was, that was the,

the, the mother, the

 

833

00:38:34,815 --> 00:38:36,945

Marc Preston: famous mother

phrase, you know, being jx.

 

834

00:38:36,945 --> 00:38:41,085

I think we had some of the best

stuff available, uh, you know.

 

835

00:38:41,805 --> 00:38:46,605

To just kind of spark our imagination

back in the day, you know, like, uh, what,

 

836

00:38:46,605 --> 00:38:49,424

what were you consuming when you were,

I mean, what, what do you think was the

 

837

00:38:49,424 --> 00:38:53,115

genesis of you wanting to do this thing as

far as what you were watching or reading

 

838

00:38:53,115 --> 00:38:57,254

or, you know, if you go back circa 80

something, you know, what were you going,

 

839

00:38:57,345 --> 00:38:58,935

okay, this is setting my brain on fire.

 

840

00:38:58,935 --> 00:38:59,215

I like this.

 

841

00:39:00,345 --> 00:39:03,945

Thomas Jane: It was the independent

comic book scene in the eighties.

 

842

00:39:04,275 --> 00:39:06,405

Uh, there were a couple of companies.

 

843

00:39:06,405 --> 00:39:11,565

One, one of them was called Eclipse and

the other was called Pacific Comics.

 

844

00:39:12,255 --> 00:39:18,645

And Pacific had a couple of lines,

uh, of anthologies, comic books,

 

845

00:39:18,645 --> 00:39:23,385

and one was called Alien Worlds

and it was all sci-fi stories and

 

846

00:39:23,385 --> 00:39:25,245

the other was called Twisted Tails.

 

847

00:39:25,275 --> 00:39:26,985

And that was all horror stories.

 

848

00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:27,000

Mm-hmm.

 

849

00:39:27,405 --> 00:39:30,105

And they're still some of

the best stuff I've read.

 

850

00:39:30,165 --> 00:39:34,995

Just the art and the writing created by

Bruce Jones, who I got to know later.

 

851

00:39:35,685 --> 00:39:38,145

Uh, great guy, wonderfully talented.

 

852

00:39:38,685 --> 00:39:42,135

Uh, and he's making stories, you

know, and it is just something

 

853

00:39:42,135 --> 00:39:45,465

so gratifying about, um.

 

854

00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:51,600

The, uh, the comic book panel, the

page, you know, the, the art, the story.

 

855

00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,110

What's wonderful is every artist

can create a world that you

 

856

00:39:55,110 --> 00:39:57,480

can fall into that's unique.

 

857

00:39:57,570 --> 00:39:57,660

Mm-hmm.

 

858

00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,810

Thomas Jane: And that's what's so

great about the comic book artists.

 

859

00:40:00,870 --> 00:40:03,300

And now, you know, they're,

they're still out there and

 

860

00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:05,370

they're still doing fantastic work.

 

861

00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:12,120

The guy that we used is, um, Argentinian,

he's, uh, Diego Yur, who I found in

 

862

00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,130

the pages of Heavy Metal Magazine.

 

863

00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:19,170

And, uh, the work that he's done

is extraordinary and it's, it's

 

864

00:40:19,290 --> 00:40:23,759

gratifying to be able to work with

other artists like a director, right.

 

865

00:40:23,820 --> 00:40:24,810

Which I direct.

 

866

00:40:24,810 --> 00:40:31,259

I directed a couple of episodes of Troppo,

um, and, uh, plan on doing more of that

 

867

00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:33,509

because I really, really enjoyed it.

 

868

00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:37,860

I love bringing out the best in

people, and that's what you do,

 

869

00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:39,840

uh, in the comic book business.

 

870

00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,350

You find.

 

871

00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:42,720

The best writer for the job.

 

872

00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:47,370

You find the best artist and you

marry these, the colorist, uh, and

 

873

00:40:47,370 --> 00:40:53,339

you marry these talents to create

a world, a story and a world, a

 

874

00:40:53,339 --> 00:40:55,589

visual world that you can fall into.

 

875

00:40:55,890 --> 00:40:56,250

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

876

00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:58,770

Thomas Jane: And that, and then,

and then working with those

 

877

00:40:58,770 --> 00:41:05,759

guys, the process of bringing it

to life, uh, is very gratifying

 

878

00:41:05,759 --> 00:41:06,990

when you, uh, when you hold that

 

879

00:41:06,990 --> 00:41:07,230

Marc Preston: book

 

880

00:41:07,230 --> 00:41:07,890

Thomas Jane: in your hands.

 

881

00:41:08,430 --> 00:41:08,520

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

882

00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,450

Those collaborations, like, like you had

mentioned before, you know, as far as not

 

883

00:41:12,450 --> 00:41:16,140

like to be in big crowds and all that, you

know, but there is something really cool

 

884

00:41:16,140 --> 00:41:20,100

that I, I identify with that, but when

you collaborate with a couple, few people

 

885

00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:23,970

and y'all are all kind of on the same

frequency, that's, I I think it's really

 

886

00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:25,560

rewarding and that that is one thing.

 

887

00:41:25,565 --> 00:41:25,615

Yeah.

 

888

00:41:25,615 --> 00:41:26,415

And you're bringing them together.

 

889

00:41:26,884 --> 00:41:27,174

Yeah.

 

890

00:41:27,194 --> 00:41:27,990

And so that's, that's right.

 

891

00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:31,379

That is a direct as, as somebody who's

producing or directing a show, you're,

 

892

00:41:31,620 --> 00:41:34,500

you know, you're wrangling people

to do a, you have this vision and.

 

893

00:41:34,799 --> 00:41:37,200

Have, I've done just a little

bit of acting, you know, but when

 

894

00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,420

you're on a set, you are, like,

being an actor is the easy part.

 

895

00:41:39,420 --> 00:41:41,970

You know, having to like be a

director, having to be this ringmaster,

 

896

00:41:41,970 --> 00:41:43,645

that's, that's the word, you know,

 

897

00:41:43,645 --> 00:41:45,960

Thomas Jane: being actor's,

the easy part for sure.

 

898

00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:46,529

You know?

 

899

00:41:46,770 --> 00:41:51,390

But the good news is it's

distributed, uh, responsibility.

 

900

00:41:51,450 --> 00:41:56,279

You know, as a director, you're,

you're the dis, you're the distributor

 

901

00:41:56,279 --> 00:42:01,560

of responsibility and, and getting

people that you trust and, and allowing

 

902

00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,690

them to do the best work that they

can, uh, is really the whole game.

 

903

00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:09,960

You know, if you're trying to control

things and you're like, no, I want it

 

904

00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:16,500

this way, then generally you're not

gonna get, uh, a top-notch product.

 

905

00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:21,840

What you wanna do is allow the artist,

whether that's the production designer or

 

906

00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:27,720

the costumer, or the guy that you drive

around looking for locations with, uh,

 

907

00:42:28,110 --> 00:42:30,660

to bring out the best in the in, in them.

 

908

00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:32,130

Um.

 

909

00:42:32,895 --> 00:42:35,835

It may it, it it for the crew.

 

910

00:42:35,835 --> 00:42:38,625

It makes getting up and going

to work a fun experience.

 

911

00:42:38,625 --> 00:42:41,025

And that's what you want because

that's where you get the best work.

 

912

00:42:41,205 --> 00:42:44,565

Marc Preston: You mentioned the, the being

a director of a show, you know, like a

 

913

00:42:44,565 --> 00:42:46,785

movies, director's, medium television.

 

914

00:42:46,785 --> 00:42:49,665

It's kind of a writer's medium,

but there was so much consist

 

915

00:42:49,665 --> 00:42:52,154

going back to Expanse 'cause I'm

gonna nerd out on it a little bit.

 

916

00:42:52,154 --> 00:42:53,085

Love that show.

 

917

00:42:53,174 --> 00:42:56,835

Uh, but it seemed like to me

there was so much consistency.

 

918

00:42:56,835 --> 00:42:59,955

You know, you'd have different directors

episode, episode, but it seems like there

 

919

00:42:59,955 --> 00:43:02,355

was a very common aesthetic and vibe.

 

920

00:43:02,355 --> 00:43:06,194

Like talk about the costumers,

the, um, just the choices they

 

921

00:43:06,194 --> 00:43:07,755

made on just like your haircut.

 

922

00:43:07,755 --> 00:43:11,565

Like all it seems like that was

a very intentional every day.

 

923

00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:13,770

Peace, what, you know, a

 

924

00:43:13,770 --> 00:43:17,460

Thomas Jane: great opportunity to,

to create a world from the ground up.

 

925

00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:17,609

Oh yeah.

 

926

00:43:17,609 --> 00:43:21,120

That's one of the things about

sci-fi that, uh, is really strong

 

927

00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,650

or it can be like really bad.

 

928

00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:25,470

Uh, there's kind of

no, nothing in between.

 

929

00:43:25,859 --> 00:43:27,569

Um, but, but it was kind

of, it was kind of the

 

930

00:43:27,569 --> 00:43:29,339

Marc Preston: vehicle, uh, sci-fi.

 

931

00:43:29,339 --> 00:43:31,230

But we talk about authentic stories.

 

932

00:43:31,230 --> 00:43:34,890

Like I remember that there's one scene

when you go and I was it, is it Julie Mao?

 

933

00:43:34,890 --> 00:43:35,759

Is that the character's name?

 

934

00:43:35,759 --> 00:43:36,915

You went into her apartment Yeah.

 

935

00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:39,750

And you're sort of exploring

who this was by just looking

 

936

00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:41,730

at her apartment and you, yeah.

 

937

00:43:41,730 --> 00:43:45,600

You never met this person, but you

kind of developed a real, this very

 

938

00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,660

authentic connection and that, that,

that's what I think made that show

 

939

00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:50,879

so great was it was real human.

 

940

00:43:51,555 --> 00:43:52,035

Stuff.

 

941

00:43:52,065 --> 00:43:52,215

Yeah.

 

942

00:43:52,220 --> 00:43:52,904

You know, you could,

 

943

00:43:53,115 --> 00:43:56,174

Thomas Jane: that's, that's the,

the core of it all needs to come

 

944

00:43:56,174 --> 00:44:00,134

down to real human stuff, you know,

that's what you're looking for.

 

945

00:44:00,134 --> 00:44:04,035

The, the story is just what

you're hanging the reality on.

 

946

00:44:04,065 --> 00:44:10,755

The reality is, is the creation of, uh,

human emotions, human experiences, uh,

 

947

00:44:10,755 --> 00:44:15,884

human conflicts and doubts and fears

and all that wonderful stuff goes in

 

948

00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,575

Marc Preston: and, and, and imperfections,

but also people who rise to the occasion.

 

949

00:44:19,575 --> 00:44:23,295

You know, it's just, it's it, to me it

was, it had a perfect kind of ending,

 

950

00:44:23,295 --> 00:44:25,305

but I'm like, no, it can't end now.

 

951

00:44:25,305 --> 00:44:26,384

It must keep going, you know?

 

952

00:44:26,745 --> 00:44:30,015

But, uh, but like your daughter, you

said is also doing the acting thing.

 

953

00:44:30,015 --> 00:44:32,384

What piece of advice have

you handed off to her?

 

954

00:44:32,384 --> 00:44:34,095

I'm sure you've got nuggets that you've.

 

955

00:44:34,515 --> 00:44:36,674

Passed along to her along the way.

 

956

00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:36,980

Uhhuh?

 

957

00:44:37,334 --> 00:44:37,935

Thomas Jane: I do.

 

958

00:44:37,935 --> 00:44:38,265

Yeah.

 

959

00:44:38,265 --> 00:44:40,004

I've got a few little nuggets.

 

960

00:44:40,004 --> 00:44:43,935

You know, she's surrounded by some

really, um, uh, you know, she's,

 

961

00:44:43,935 --> 00:44:48,674

she's immersed in the, uh, in

the, in the artist artist's world.

 

962

00:44:48,915 --> 00:44:55,064

You know, she grew up around books and

movies and paintings and everything else.

 

963

00:44:55,064 --> 00:44:58,035

So I think there's something to that.

 

964

00:44:58,305 --> 00:45:05,475

Um, uh, I think you can get

further faster if you grow up.

 

965

00:45:05,535 --> 00:45:08,084

And this not just in the

art world, in any world.

 

966

00:45:08,714 --> 00:45:14,535

Um, if you, if you have an affinity

for it, take advantage of it.

 

967

00:45:14,535 --> 00:45:17,805

You know, people say, well, I, I,

they, they get nervous about some

 

968

00:45:17,805 --> 00:45:19,484

kind of nepotism and all that.

 

969

00:45:20,819 --> 00:45:24,569

It, the only thing that matters is

if, do you have an affinity for it?

 

970

00:45:24,629 --> 00:45:25,470

Do you love it?

 

971

00:45:25,709 --> 00:45:30,689

And if you love it, then you've got

this wonderful landscape, um, that's

 

972

00:45:30,689 --> 00:45:37,859

been created around you by, uh, your

parents and their friends and that,

 

973

00:45:37,859 --> 00:45:43,140

that circle who have also immersed the

themselves so you actually can get further

 

974

00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:46,109

faster, um, because of that immersion.

 

975

00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:48,210

Marc Preston: You know, they

say nepotism, then nepo.

 

976

00:45:48,629 --> 00:45:50,279

That'll get you so far.

 

977

00:45:50,279 --> 00:45:51,779

But it's kinda like professional sports.

 

978

00:45:51,779 --> 00:45:54,359

I mean, if you can't, if

you're batting 100, yeah.

 

979

00:45:54,450 --> 00:45:55,859

You're not gonna be playing in the majors.

 

980

00:45:55,859 --> 00:45:56,125

You know?

 

981

00:45:56,609 --> 00:45:58,439

You know, gotta, you

gotta show can perform.

 

982

00:45:58,439 --> 00:45:59,640

Uh, now do you just have one

 

983

00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:00,029

Thomas Jane: daughter?

 

984

00:46:00,270 --> 00:46:04,020

I've got one daughter and

she's, uh, changed my life.

 

985

00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:08,700

You know, I was a, a wayward

soul, uh, before I had her.

 

986

00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:16,350

And then, um, and she, so she's, she's,

uh, given me, uh, a new life that,

 

987

00:46:16,350 --> 00:46:19,140

uh, I'm incredibly grateful for every

 

988

00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:19,439

Marc Preston: day.

 

989

00:46:19,710 --> 00:46:24,029

I'm lucky to have three wonderful

kids, but, uh, the, the, the, the more,

 

990

00:46:24,029 --> 00:46:26,669

like my youngest is, is a lot like me.

 

991

00:46:26,669 --> 00:46:30,180

So it doesn't create friction, but it's

sort of like, I think the things that

 

992

00:46:30,180 --> 00:46:35,790

irritate her about me, you know, are the

things that we, we, we have in common.

 

993

00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:38,879

So we, we've, you know, there's just

needing to meet her that, but as

 

994

00:46:38,879 --> 00:46:42,240

she's got, she's, she's studying in

Europe right now, so she's doing that

 

995

00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:43,799

would be great to be 19 years old.

 

996

00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,680

Every weekend taking a

train somewhere, you know,

 

997

00:46:47,130 --> 00:46:47,850

Thomas Jane: and Europe.

 

998

00:46:47,850 --> 00:46:48,540

Fantastic.

 

999

00:46:48,570 --> 00:46:49,410

It's perfect.

 

1000

00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,460

I think all kids should be, should

be doing that, you know, see, seeing

 

1001

00:46:53,460 --> 00:47:00,180

the world, seeing how other people

live, uh, in is, uh, probably as a,

 

1002

00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:06,605

as a young person, uh, that's, um,

much more valuable than education.

 

1003

00:47:07,025 --> 00:47:07,485

So Is she,

 

1004

00:47:07,795 --> 00:47:10,590

Marc Preston: have you had a chance to

have her work on any of your projects at

 

1005

00:47:10,590 --> 00:47:12,270

all, or any things you've worked on or?

 

1006

00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:12,605

Thomas Jane: We did.

 

1007

00:47:12,610 --> 00:47:14,520

We did a movie together

when she was younger.

 

1008

00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,200

We did a little movie called Dig.

 

1009

00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:20,670

Uh, she's great and it, movie's not

so good, but she's, she's terrific and

 

1010

00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:24,660

it got her the experience, you know,

when you're young, you're just craving

 

1011

00:47:24,660 --> 00:47:32,220

experience And, um, we've, we've, um,

it's, it is sort of neat, you know, she

 

1012

00:47:32,220 --> 00:47:34,980

lives with me, so we're having, we're.

 

1013

00:47:35,230 --> 00:47:37,120

Uh, it's so interesting.

 

1014

00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:37,930

She's 22.

 

1015

00:47:37,930 --> 00:47:38,020

Mm-hmm.

 

1016

00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:40,690

And she's now an adult.

 

1017

00:47:41,005 --> 00:47:43,120

And, uh, and that in that we, we have

 

1018

00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:44,770

Marc Preston: this adult relationship.

 

1019

00:47:44,830 --> 00:47:46,210

I'm getting used to that also.

 

1020

00:47:46,210 --> 00:47:48,400

It's like they're gonna be

their baby's baby forever.

 

1021

00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:48,700

Right.

 

1022

00:47:48,700 --> 00:47:52,570

But I remember being 22, what I was up to

there are, there are, there're they're a

 

1023

00:47:52,570 --> 00:47:53,920

human out in the world doing their thing.

 

1024

00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,230

I'm like, this is my daughter's

teaching school, my oldest.

 

1025

00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:58,810

And it's, it's weird

'cause it happened so fast.

 

1026

00:47:59,005 --> 00:48:00,225

You know, that's,

 

1027

00:48:00,820 --> 00:48:04,060

Thomas Jane: uh, like your, it's like

your heart walks out the door every

 

1028

00:48:04,060 --> 00:48:08,950

day and, uh, it's just, uh, you just

hope that the world, uh, treats her.

 

1029

00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:09,370

Okay.

 

1030

00:48:09,580 --> 00:48:11,050

Marc Preston: Uh, now is Patricia her mom?

 

1031

00:48:11,140 --> 00:48:11,259

Mm-hmm.

 

1032

00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,009

Okay.

 

1033

00:48:12,009 --> 00:48:12,020

Okay.

 

1034

00:48:12,220 --> 00:48:15,460

I, I had, uh, I had,

uh, David on, uh, ATA.

 

1035

00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:16,720

Real interesting guy.

 

1036

00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,040

That was a, that was a fun talk.

 

1037

00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,305

That's an, they were, yeah.

 

1038

00:48:19,305 --> 00:48:20,305

He's a unique individual.

 

1039

00:48:20,625 --> 00:48:20,985

I love David.

 

1040

00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,290

He, you know, he'll have a

great, great affinity for him.

 

1041

00:48:24,350 --> 00:48:26,060

He seems to have just the best heart.

 

1042

00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:27,290

He seems like a good dude.

 

1043

00:48:27,350 --> 00:48:30,440

Thomas Jane: You know, he just, uh, he's

a, he's a wonderful guy and he's got

 

1044

00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,800

great wack, we strange tastes, you know.

 

1045

00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,220

Um, he is similar to myself,

but in a different way.

 

1046

00:48:37,220 --> 00:48:38,780

You know, he's into different things.

 

1047

00:48:38,780 --> 00:48:39,320

But, uh,

 

1048

00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:41,690

Marc Preston: you know, it's really

interesting because we were talking about,

 

1049

00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:43,430

uh, Paul Rubins and it was interesting.

 

1050

00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:46,100

I just saw the Paul Rubins,

the peewee, that documenter,

 

1051

00:48:46,100 --> 00:48:47,120

which I think was wonderful.

 

1052

00:48:47,540 --> 00:48:47,630

Yeah.

 

1053

00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:48,170

And I was like, what?

 

1054

00:48:48,170 --> 00:48:48,320

Yeah,

 

1055

00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:49,610

Thomas Jane: we were all friends.

 

1056

00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:50,780

Uh, with Paul.

 

1057

00:48:50,780 --> 00:48:55,400

We had some wonderful times together

and it was, uh, devastating.

 

1058

00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:56,630

I still Ms. Paul.

 

1059

00:48:57,299 --> 00:49:00,419

Paul Paul would send everybody,

he never missed a birthday.

 

1060

00:49:01,109 --> 00:49:02,339

He was that kind of guy.

 

1061

00:49:02,430 --> 00:49:07,710

And he would, if it was your birthday,

then throughout the day you would

 

1062

00:49:07,710 --> 00:49:11,069

just receive a series of texts.

 

1063

00:49:11,129 --> 00:49:17,129

Uh, and they could be jokes, um, they

could be memes and they could be those

 

1064

00:49:17,129 --> 00:49:21,870

little snippet movies, you know, uhhuh of

like a horse blowing out birthday candles

 

1065

00:49:21,870 --> 00:49:26,970

or you know, some woman slipping in the

kitchen and landing in a birthday cake.

 

1066

00:49:26,970 --> 00:49:30,240

Like you would get these

things scattered throughout the

 

1067

00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:31,500

day if it was your birthday.

 

1068

00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:33,569

And he did that with

everybody that he loved and.

 

1069

00:49:34,155 --> 00:49:38,595

And, um, that was just a small piece of

Paul Rubin that actually made it into

 

1070

00:49:38,595 --> 00:49:39,315

Marc Preston: the documentary.

 

1071

00:49:39,315 --> 00:49:39,795

I remember that.

 

1072

00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,745

He was, he was telling,

uh, he had to stop.

 

1073

00:49:41,745 --> 00:49:44,475

He said, uh, I gotta start sending

my birthday things for the day.

 

1074

00:49:45,135 --> 00:49:48,375

You know, I think that was a wonderful

documentary, any kid of the eighties.

 

1075

00:49:48,540 --> 00:49:51,885

It, it was like, it kind of completed

like, it, it was, I think so.

 

1076

00:49:51,885 --> 00:49:52,155

Good.

 

1077

00:49:52,185 --> 00:49:56,175

'cause it gave you more appreciation,

empathy for the arc of his story.

 

1078

00:49:56,175 --> 00:49:56,235

Yeah.

 

1079

00:49:56,235 --> 00:49:58,155

I mean, um, he deserves it.

 

1080

00:49:58,275 --> 00:50:00,285

Thomas Jane: Truly wonderful human being.

 

1081

00:50:00,645 --> 00:50:03,555

Marc Preston: So, looking at what

you've, you said character actor

 

1082

00:50:03,765 --> 00:50:07,485

that, you know, that's how you kind of

frame the nature of the work you do.

 

1083

00:50:07,965 --> 00:50:10,515

What is it you haven't done

that you want to knock out?

 

1084

00:50:10,545 --> 00:50:11,925

You like, this is on the agenda.

 

1085

00:50:11,925 --> 00:50:13,455

I must do this.

 

1086

00:50:13,815 --> 00:50:14,445

Yeah,

 

1087

00:50:14,445 --> 00:50:17,685

Thomas Jane: I, I've got a

script that I'm working on.

 

1088

00:50:17,685 --> 00:50:22,755

It's gonna take me a while to,

to get it done, but, um, but

 

1089

00:50:22,755 --> 00:50:25,095

that I'm not gonna talk about.

 

1090

00:50:25,155 --> 00:50:28,725

But I do, uh, I do have things

that I haven't done yet.

 

1091

00:50:28,815 --> 00:50:30,435

I'm working on making 'em happen.

 

1092

00:50:30,435 --> 00:50:31,905

I really like.

 

1093

00:50:32,340 --> 00:50:35,070

Um, getting behind the camera now.

 

1094

00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:38,910

So developing a couple

of things to direct.

 

1095

00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,470

Uh, I I'm hoping that these

smaller, independent movies,

 

1096

00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:45,150

uh, start getting made again.

 

1097

00:50:45,155 --> 00:50:45,385

Yeah.

 

1098

00:50:45,390 --> 00:50:45,480

Yeah.

 

1099

00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:47,790

Because that's really

where my, my heart is.

 

1100

00:50:47,790 --> 00:50:52,170

I like these, these little stories

about human beings that, uh,

 

1101

00:50:52,350 --> 00:50:57,750

that live outside of, uh, your,

your normal everyday experience.

 

1102

00:50:57,750 --> 00:51:01,440

That's, um, what I think is so great

about, you know, the internet, you

 

1103

00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,680

know, the way these little rabbit

holes you're able to, to find and

 

1104

00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:09,240

go down, and it really brings us

closer together as human beings.

 

1105

00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:13,770

We start to understand each

other, um, a lot better, you know?

 

1106

00:51:13,770 --> 00:51:19,200

And I feel like these divisions that

have been created politically are false.

 

1107

00:51:19,230 --> 00:51:19,890

I really do.

 

1108

00:51:19,890 --> 00:51:21,750

Marc Preston: It's, I think it's

all its own brand of theater.

 

1109

00:51:22,105 --> 00:51:22,765

Be honest with you.

 

1110

00:51:22,765 --> 00:51:25,075

That's the thing that

it's all manufactured,

 

1111

00:51:25,110 --> 00:51:27,835

Thomas Jane: but this, but

the thing is, so many people

 

1112

00:51:27,985 --> 00:51:29,575

buy it hook, line, and sinker.

 

1113

00:51:29,575 --> 00:51:31,135

It works, you know?

 

1114

00:51:31,135 --> 00:51:34,975

And it, and it wor and I think it works on

all of us to, to, uh, greater or lesser.

 

1115

00:51:34,975 --> 00:51:35,995

It's not that dopa, it's,

 

1116

00:51:35,995 --> 00:51:38,035

Marc Preston: uh, the dopamine

hit that I think people get.

 

1117

00:51:38,035 --> 00:51:39,565

They, they wanna be en enraged.

 

1118

00:51:39,565 --> 00:51:41,695

And I'm like, you know,

there's something just chilled.

 

1119

00:51:41,695 --> 00:51:42,625

Think about it for a moment.

 

1120

00:51:42,625 --> 00:51:45,415

Let it bounce around your

mind before you've Yeah.

 

1121

00:51:45,415 --> 00:51:45,450

You know,

 

1122

00:51:45,805 --> 00:51:48,655

Thomas Jane: you gonna, like,

is that gonna, is somebody gonna

 

1123

00:51:48,655 --> 00:51:50,125

bring that up at your funeral?

 

1124

00:51:50,395 --> 00:51:51,055

Marc Preston: Like, if it's

 

1125

00:51:51,055 --> 00:51:54,145

Thomas Jane: not that

important, then just let it go.

 

1126

00:51:54,475 --> 00:51:54,775

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

1127

00:51:54,775 --> 00:51:58,675

I, I'm really missing some of those

independent, uh, if you look in

 

1128

00:51:58,675 --> 00:52:02,605

Netflix, uh, sometimes they give

it a adjective of understated.

 

1129

00:52:02,965 --> 00:52:04,010

A lot of times they'll give it like, yeah.

 

1130

00:52:04,225 --> 00:52:08,090

It's just a story about people

navigating a thing, you know?

 

1131

00:52:08,430 --> 00:52:10,090

Thomas Jane: Now how do you

have to be able to tell it?

 

1132

00:52:10,090 --> 00:52:12,565

Well, you know, you have to

still, it's entertainment.

 

1133

00:52:12,565 --> 00:52:15,325

You know, at the end of the day,

it's, I don't wanna watch boring

 

1134

00:52:15,325 --> 00:52:16,735

movies about nothing I want.

 

1135

00:52:16,735 --> 00:52:19,045

I wanna watch exciting

movies about nothing.

 

1136

00:52:19,485 --> 00:52:20,745

Marc Preston: Now, how did play Dirty?

 

1137

00:52:20,805 --> 00:52:22,395

Uh, how did Play Dirty come to you?

 

1138

00:52:22,725 --> 00:52:26,445

Thomas Jane: I've worked with Shane,

uh, before, you know, me and Shane,

 

1139

00:52:26,445 --> 00:52:31,065

um, when he had the Nice guys as a

script, we took that down to Austin and

 

1140

00:52:31,065 --> 00:52:34,575

did a staged reading of the Nice Guys.

 

1141

00:52:34,635 --> 00:52:39,075

And so we, we've wanted to work

with each other since then.

 

1142

00:52:39,315 --> 00:52:44,115

'cause we just, you know, I just

love his work and, uh, and I like

 

1143

00:52:44,115 --> 00:52:45,345

the way it comes outta my mouth.

 

1144

00:52:45,345 --> 00:52:46,065

And so does he.

 

1145

00:52:46,065 --> 00:52:53,755

So when that movie, uh, got going, he

wanted me to play the part, uh, mm-hmm.

 

1146

00:52:53,805 --> 00:52:58,935

And I was in Toronto shooting

The Expanse, so I, I couldn't do

 

1147

00:52:58,935 --> 00:53:01,245

it, uh, which was heartbreaking.

 

1148

00:53:01,275 --> 00:53:01,335

No.

 

1149

00:53:01,335 --> 00:53:02,385

Which, which part in the nice

 

1150

00:53:02,385 --> 00:53:03,645

Marc Preston: guys was, uh,

 

1151

00:53:03,825 --> 00:53:07,065

Thomas Jane: the nice guys, the

other guy, you know, not, not, uh.

 

1152

00:53:07,140 --> 00:53:10,529

N not the Australian, uh, Russell.

 

1153

00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:11,490

Oh, uh, Ryan.

 

1154

00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:12,540

Uh, yeah.

 

1155

00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:13,440

Ryan's part.

 

1156

00:53:13,470 --> 00:53:13,830

Yeah.

 

1157

00:53:13,830 --> 00:53:13,859

Okay.

 

1158

00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,500

So we've wanted to work together.

 

1159

00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:21,330

So we finally, you know, when Predator

came along, uh, he wanted to do this,

 

1160

00:53:21,330 --> 00:53:22,950

this oddball version of Predator.

 

1161

00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:25,049

Of course, I said, yes, we had a blast.

 

1162

00:53:25,049 --> 00:53:28,440

And then so when, uh, played

Dirty came along, he wanted

 

1163

00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,500

me to, to, he gave me a call.

 

1164

00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:36,000

And anytime, uh, a guy like, uh,

Shane, you know, I learned that lesson

 

1165

00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,620

the hard way when I was younger.

 

1166

00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:43,980

I turned down really talented

directors, um, a couple of times.

 

1167

00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,089

And as I got older, I realized,

that's really dumb, you

 

1168

00:53:48,089 --> 00:53:49,529

know, and it doesn't matter.

 

1169

00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,549

I wanna do movies that I wanna watch.

 

1170

00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:55,500

That's sort of the general barometer.

 

1171

00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:00,810

But there's another side to the

business where if you, if you have

 

1172

00:54:00,810 --> 00:54:02,850

a particular talent and a really.

 

1173

00:54:03,420 --> 00:54:06,540

Strong director wants to

use it, you should take it.

 

1174

00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,730

Um, and, and, and that's called

being of service, you know?

 

1175

00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:11,790

Yeah.

 

1176

00:54:11,819 --> 00:54:16,740

So that's sort of something I was more

selfish as a young man, and now I'm much,

 

1177

00:54:16,799 --> 00:54:22,379

now I see I have a, a, a bigger sort of,

my scope has, has broadened a little bit.

 

1178

00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:24,480

Um, and it took me a while.

 

1179

00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,180

You know, again, this sort

of the, one of the downfall.

 

1180

00:54:27,495 --> 00:54:30,765

Downsides of being an outsider,

you know, things that might seem

 

1181

00:54:30,765 --> 00:54:33,255

obvious to other people, uh, take me.

 

1182

00:54:33,375 --> 00:54:34,095

Well, I think that's still a

 

1183

00:54:34,095 --> 00:54:35,925

Marc Preston: function of

being young in your twenties.

 

1184

00:54:35,925 --> 00:54:38,385

You know, like I, I talked to somebody

the other day, I said, there's no way in

 

1185

00:54:38,385 --> 00:54:42,285

hell I would go back and do my twenties

again unless I know what I know now.

 

1186

00:54:42,735 --> 00:54:44,565

You know, there's a lot of

hitting you edge against

 

1187

00:54:44,925 --> 00:54:45,075

wall,

 

1188

00:54:45,075 --> 00:54:45,645

Thomas Jane: you know?

 

1189

00:54:45,915 --> 00:54:46,305

Yeah.

 

1190

00:54:46,455 --> 00:54:49,635

Um, it's brutal, you know,

but it's a lot of fun though.

 

1191

00:54:49,635 --> 00:54:52,575

I mean, Jesus, I wasted

a lot of time with girls.

 

1192

00:54:53,355 --> 00:54:58,935

Um, it, it was nice to, uh, to sort of,

when, when that calms down a little bit,

 

1193

00:54:58,935 --> 00:55:03,435

the testosterone drops a little bit,

it a lot more time to get stuff done.

 

1194

00:55:03,645 --> 00:55:04,515

Kind of reminds me of

 

1195

00:55:04,545 --> 00:55:06,945

Marc Preston: an interview with Dustin

Hoffman and he says, you know, the

 

1196

00:55:06,945 --> 00:55:09,705

great thing about being my age, I, he,

I don't know if he was in his fifties

 

1197

00:55:09,705 --> 00:55:11,295

or sixties, it was an article already.

 

1198

00:55:11,295 --> 00:55:14,385

He said, you can just kinda walk down

the beach and you're not just paying

 

1199

00:55:14,385 --> 00:55:15,915

attention to like the girls and all that.

 

1200

00:55:15,915 --> 00:55:18,175

You're, you're noticing

everything around you.

 

1201

00:55:18,175 --> 00:55:18,740

You're more Right.

 

1202

00:55:18,740 --> 00:55:18,940

Life.

 

1203

00:55:18,970 --> 00:55:19,260

Yeah.

 

1204

00:55:19,260 --> 00:55:19,660

Everything else.

 

1205

00:55:19,970 --> 00:55:20,260

Yeah.

 

1206

00:55:20,410 --> 00:55:20,700

Yeah.

 

1207

00:55:21,390 --> 00:55:23,415

Everything that doesn't have a tail.

 

1208

00:55:23,835 --> 00:55:24,674

But what's that phrase?

 

1209

00:55:24,674 --> 00:55:27,045

If you don't look back on yourself

in your twenties and go, God, I was a

 

1210

00:55:27,045 --> 00:55:28,785

knucklehead, you're still a knucklehead.

 

1211

00:55:28,845 --> 00:55:29,295

You know?

 

1212

00:55:29,295 --> 00:55:30,915

So, um,

 

1213

00:55:38,115 --> 00:55:40,424

before we get running, I always

do something to call my seven

 

1214

00:55:40,424 --> 00:55:41,955

questions a little extra fun.

 

1215

00:55:42,194 --> 00:55:46,095

And the first question I

always ask everyone is What?

 

1216

00:55:46,095 --> 00:55:48,674

'cause I always gotta talk about

food at least once on the show.

 

1217

00:55:49,065 --> 00:55:51,615

Uh, what is your favorite comfort food?

 

1218

00:55:52,725 --> 00:55:53,985

Oh, comfort food.

 

1219

00:55:54,165 --> 00:55:54,345

Yeah.

 

1220

00:55:54,345 --> 00:55:54,495

Jesus.

 

1221

00:55:54,495 --> 00:55:57,615

The one thing, no matter good day,

bad day, you're like, it's just solid.

 

1222

00:55:57,615 --> 00:55:58,694

It it where you, well, I

 

1223

00:55:58,694 --> 00:56:02,325

Thomas Jane: tell you right

now, um, see, I, I have this

 

1224

00:56:02,325 --> 00:56:04,095

thing about American chocolate.

 

1225

00:56:04,125 --> 00:56:06,075

It really sucks.

 

1226

00:56:06,105 --> 00:56:08,444

Like, you know, having gotten.

 

1227

00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,250

Uh, travel the world a little bit.

 

1228

00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:15,900

You find you, you walk into a

little grocery shop in, uh, France

 

1229

00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:17,250

and you get the best chocolate.

 

1230

00:56:17,340 --> 00:56:19,740

You know, it's just like they,

when they make something,

 

1231

00:56:19,740 --> 00:56:21,180

they make it right out here.

 

1232

00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:22,800

I don't know what the hell they put in it.

 

1233

00:56:22,890 --> 00:56:23,730

It's awful.

 

1234

00:56:23,970 --> 00:56:30,630

But I found this little company called

Quest, and they make a peanut butter cup

 

1235

00:56:31,110 --> 00:56:37,740

that only has like one gram of sugar,

and then it's got, um, whatever the hell,

 

1236

00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,180

uh, protein, it's, it's like, uh, so

you can kind of convince yourself that

 

1237

00:56:42,180 --> 00:56:43,890

you're actually eating a little protein.

 

1238

00:56:44,430 --> 00:56:49,170

And they are the best buttercup

peanut butter cups that I've ever had.

 

1239

00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:52,860

So I keep 'em in the fridge, and

whenever I get a little down, I grab one.

 

1240

00:56:53,230 --> 00:56:55,540

Marc Preston: Well, they

say dark chocolate is good.

 

1241

00:56:55,540 --> 00:56:55,780

Good.

 

1242

00:56:55,780 --> 00:56:58,960

I mean, the real chocolate, like

high cocoa percent is good for you.

 

1243

00:56:59,110 --> 00:56:59,950

It's your, yeah, I'm

 

1244

00:56:59,950 --> 00:57:02,020

Thomas Jane: not a big

fan of dark chocolate.

 

1245

00:57:02,020 --> 00:57:06,730

You know, I some, some of it's

good, but, um, for the most part, I

 

1246

00:57:06,730 --> 00:57:08,350

wish I liked dark chocolate better.

 

1247

00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:08,560

Mm-hmm.

 

1248

00:57:08,860 --> 00:57:11,920

Because then I'd feel, you know, like

I was, you know, being healthy when I

 

1249

00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,590

Marc Preston: ate it, you know, my

daughter's name is Lily, and there's,

 

1250

00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:17,890

when you go through checkout at Whole

Foods, they have this Lilly's chocolates

 

1251

00:57:17,890 --> 00:57:20,980

bar, and they have like, but it'd

be this good chocolate that'd have

 

1252

00:57:20,980 --> 00:57:23,260

like, uh, berries in it or something.

 

1253

00:57:23,260 --> 00:57:24,040

It was so good.

 

1254

00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,590

It's, it's one of those things, you

sit there and by the time we get

 

1255

00:57:26,590 --> 00:57:27,580

home we've eaten the whole thing.

 

1256

00:57:27,580 --> 00:57:30,220

But the idea was to get it home and

it kind of keep it, you know, like

 

1257

00:57:30,250 --> 00:57:32,740

his little snack, you know, but

it never made it home, you know.

 

1258

00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:36,340

Um, now the next question I got for

you now, if you were going to sit

 

1259

00:57:36,340 --> 00:57:39,550

down and have coffee with you and

three other people living or not,

 

1260

00:57:40,060 --> 00:57:43,120

uh, talk story for a few hours,

who would those three people be?

 

1261

00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:44,020

You would like to sit down?

 

1262

00:57:44,020 --> 00:57:48,160

Thomas Jane: Ernest Hemingway,

um, and Dashel Hammett.

 

1263

00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,160

Uh, Ernest Hemingway, Hamit.

 

1264

00:57:52,620 --> 00:57:59,549

Um, and then, uh, Anais Nin, who's Anais

Nin, why am I drawing a blank on that?

 

1265

00:57:59,730 --> 00:58:04,020

She hung out with Henry Miller

in the thirties, and they

 

1266

00:58:04,020 --> 00:58:06,359

were boyfriend and girlfriend.

 

1267

00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:09,689

Oh, and by the way, you gotta

put Henry Miller in there too.

 

1268

00:58:09,855 --> 00:58:10,205

Uhhuh.

 

1269

00:58:10,504 --> 00:58:14,160

But she was, she was a writer.

 

1270

00:58:14,220 --> 00:58:15,930

She wrote beautiful books.

 

1271

00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:22,200

Uh, the Diary of a of, um, Ananias Nin is

a great place to start, but the one that I

 

1272

00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,109

love is called A Spy in the House of Love.

 

1273

00:58:25,259 --> 00:58:27,990

I'm writing this down, so, uh oh.

 

1274

00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:28,379

Yeah.

 

1275

00:58:28,379 --> 00:58:32,490

Just a wonderful, uh, stuff, you

know, and, and, and it's nice.

 

1276

00:58:32,490 --> 00:58:36,299

If you've read Henry Miller, then

you can imagine the kind of world

 

1277

00:58:36,299 --> 00:58:40,830

that she was writing in and,

and living in when, when she was

 

1278

00:58:40,830 --> 00:58:42,000

Marc Preston: creating this stuff.

 

1279

00:58:42,029 --> 00:58:43,169

Well, here, here's a question.

 

1280

00:58:43,169 --> 00:58:47,040

It's not on my list, but this brings

me to, uh, like, I'm curious, like

 

1281

00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,080

if you could be born in any era.

 

1282

00:58:49,695 --> 00:58:50,980

Are you kind of like, would you be

 

1283

00:58:50,980 --> 00:58:51,340

Thomas Jane: forties?

 

1284

00:58:51,615 --> 00:58:52,005

Marc Preston: The four.

 

1285

00:58:52,035 --> 00:58:52,395

Thomas Jane: Okay.

 

1286

00:58:52,485 --> 00:58:57,015

I, so I guess I'd wanna be born in

the twenties 'cause I'd wanna be

 

1287

00:58:57,015 --> 00:58:59,325

a man in the forties and fifties.

 

1288

00:58:59,325 --> 00:59:00,255

Yeah, I am.

 

1289

00:59:00,255 --> 00:59:01,095

It's a great era.

 

1290

00:59:01,845 --> 00:59:06,015

You know, the, the industry,

the industrial, uh, side of

 

1291

00:59:06,045 --> 00:59:08,805

western society was peaking.

 

1292

00:59:09,345 --> 00:59:14,415

Um, you know, we had the, in, we

were ma and, and we were still using.

 

1293

00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:16,649

Quality materials.

 

1294

00:59:16,649 --> 00:59:16,710

Yeah.

 

1295

00:59:16,740 --> 00:59:17,370

To build.

 

1296

00:59:17,370 --> 00:59:22,049

My house is built in 1940 and it's

built like a brick shit house.

 

1297

00:59:22,049 --> 00:59:22,529

Mm-hmm.

 

1298

00:59:22,694 --> 00:59:24,690

Thomas Jane: Um, and I, and I love that.

 

1299

00:59:24,899 --> 00:59:27,359

And, uh, I will never buy a new house.

 

1300

00:59:27,420 --> 00:59:30,270

Uh, I would never waste

the money on a new house.

 

1301

00:59:30,299 --> 00:59:32,759

Marc Preston: You know, the thing

I'm thinking the same thing you are.

 

1302

00:59:32,759 --> 00:59:36,060

And I told my son the other day, I don't

think I'm ever gonna buy a new car again,

 

1303

00:59:36,060 --> 00:59:37,274

because I'm at that age, like, mm-hmm.

 

1304

00:59:37,355 --> 00:59:39,569

What car do I really want to drive?

 

1305

00:59:39,569 --> 00:59:40,980

You know, I can work on it a little bit.

 

1306

00:59:40,980 --> 00:59:41,339

You know,

 

1307

00:59:41,850 --> 00:59:45,000

Thomas Jane: I I, and the cars from

the forties, fifties, you know, in

 

1308

00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,290

the sixties, you know, the, the,

I think about 73 is when it really

 

1309

00:59:49,290 --> 00:59:54,960

died, but, uh, but the forties

and fifties were peak because the.

 

1310

00:59:55,395 --> 00:59:57,705

Mechanics were worked out.

 

1311

00:59:58,274 --> 01:00:01,845

Uh, and the design was brilliant.

 

1312

01:00:01,935 --> 01:00:04,935

And they were, you know, they were

built, they were built to last.

 

1313

01:00:04,935 --> 01:00:05,145

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

1314

01:00:05,145 --> 01:00:09,134

That, that built in obsolescence

that goes into stuff these days.

 

1315

01:00:09,134 --> 01:00:09,464

Hadn't

 

1316

01:00:09,464 --> 01:00:09,855

Thomas Jane: happened

 

1317

01:00:09,855 --> 01:00:10,065

Marc Preston: yet.

 

1318

01:00:10,095 --> 01:00:10,605

Yeah.

 

1319

01:00:10,605 --> 01:00:10,615

Yeah.

 

1320

01:00:11,145 --> 01:00:13,185

Um, now that next question got for you.

 

1321

01:00:13,185 --> 01:00:14,955

If you were to go back when

you were a kid, who was your

 

1322

01:00:14,955 --> 01:00:16,875

very first celebrity crush?

 

1323

01:00:19,035 --> 01:00:20,085

Oh, uh,

 

1324

01:00:20,115 --> 01:00:20,565

Thomas Jane: Carol Baker.

 

1325

01:00:21,015 --> 01:00:21,075

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

1326

01:00:22,245 --> 01:00:25,395

Thomas Jane: Carol Baker,

uh, from two movies.

 

1327

01:00:25,725 --> 01:00:30,674

One is she was in, uh,

uh, giant with James Dean.

 

1328

01:00:30,674 --> 01:00:30,795

Mm-hmm.

 

1329

01:00:31,185 --> 01:00:35,714

Which, uh, I, I loved James

Dean when I was a kid.

 

1330

01:00:35,714 --> 01:00:38,205

It, it really inspired me to be an actor.

 

1331

01:00:38,295 --> 01:00:44,205

And then, um, uh, baby Doll,

which was directed by Ilya Kazan.

 

1332

01:00:44,205 --> 01:00:46,245

The script is by Tennessee Williams.

 

1333

01:00:46,245 --> 01:00:47,174

Oh, okay.

 

1334

01:00:47,174 --> 01:00:49,515

Um, it's, it's got Eli Wallach in it.

 

1335

01:00:49,754 --> 01:00:52,275

Uh, it absolutely brilliant.

 

1336

01:00:52,665 --> 01:00:56,535

And it's the best female

performance that if for my money

 

1337

01:00:56,835 --> 01:00:58,335

that's ever been put on film.

 

1338

01:00:58,605 --> 01:01:00,165

The film is called Baby Doll.

 

1339

01:01:00,194 --> 01:01:04,484

Anybody, uh, want to, want to, um,

if you're into that kind of thing,

 

1340

01:01:04,484 --> 01:01:08,984

like incredibly beautiful women who

can act their ass off, uh, check out

 

1341

01:01:08,984 --> 01:01:09,705

Marc Preston: Carol Baker.

 

1342

01:01:10,234 --> 01:01:11,315

You're giving me homework here.

 

1343

01:01:11,315 --> 01:01:11,975

I like this.

 

1344

01:01:12,305 --> 01:01:13,774

You know, that's one of the

things I love about doing this.

 

1345

01:01:13,774 --> 01:01:16,504

I always end up learning something

or getting something on my, uh,

 

1346

01:01:16,805 --> 01:01:17,825

to Yeah, they're great to watch.

 

1347

01:01:17,825 --> 01:01:18,305

Movie list.

 

1348

01:01:18,305 --> 01:01:21,935

You, uh, now if you were

to be, next question.

 

1349

01:01:21,935 --> 01:01:24,634

If you're gonna be forced to live on

an island, uh, somewhere you wanna be

 

1350

01:01:24,634 --> 01:01:28,504

nice ex, you know, it's pretty, it's

tropical, uh, got all the wonderful

 

1351

01:01:28,504 --> 01:01:32,254

modern amenities, but you don't have

internet, so that means you're to, to

 

1352

01:01:32,254 --> 01:01:33,875

listen to music for that full year.

 

1353

01:01:33,875 --> 01:01:37,955

You're gonna be on the island, you gotta

bring one cd, uh, to listen to music and

 

1354

01:01:37,955 --> 01:01:39,245

to watch a movie, you gotta bring one.

 

1355

01:01:39,245 --> 01:01:39,815

DVD.

 

1356

01:01:39,815 --> 01:01:42,785

What would that cd and what

would that DVD be for you?

 

1357

01:01:43,565 --> 01:01:46,444

Thomas Jane: I like the

final cut by Pink Floyd.

 

1358

01:01:46,774 --> 01:01:49,625

That is a record I can listen

to over and over again.

 

1359

01:01:49,895 --> 01:01:54,095

Now the wall gets, you know, it,

you can burn out on the wall.

 

1360

01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:54,220

Mm-hmm.

 

1361

01:01:54,370 --> 01:01:56,225

It's, it's, um, brilliant.

 

1362

01:01:56,225 --> 01:01:57,515

The dark side of the moon.

 

1363

01:01:57,575 --> 01:01:59,105

I can burn out on that too.

 

1364

01:01:59,220 --> 01:02:02,285

I, I don't really care if I ever

hear the dark side of the moon again.

 

1365

01:02:02,285 --> 01:02:05,765

I've only heard it about,

uh, maybe like 2000 times.

 

1366

01:02:05,765 --> 01:02:05,915

Yeah.

 

1367

01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:08,100

But, but the final cut.

 

1368

01:02:08,730 --> 01:02:14,850

Takes you on this journey and, and

the album ends where the album begins.

 

1369

01:02:14,850 --> 01:02:20,700

So it's a circular, uh, if you put it on

repeat, the, the album never ends, right?

 

1370

01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:25,800

So the last song ends precisely

where the first song begins.

 

1371

01:02:25,925 --> 01:02:26,145

Oh.

 

1372

01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:30,420

So it's a, it's a record that you

can put on and you, and whenever

 

1373

01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:32,190

you want, you never turn it off.

 

1374

01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:32,940

I could do that.

 

1375

01:02:32,940 --> 01:02:37,440

Well, every song is brilliant, but

it takes you on a journey, um, that

 

1376

01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:43,230

is emotional and philosophical and

spiritual that, uh, that I think

 

1377

01:02:43,230 --> 01:02:45,420

is, um, is their best record.

 

1378

01:02:46,055 --> 01:02:46,505

Marc Preston: Very cool.

 

1379

01:02:46,505 --> 01:02:46,740

Very cool.

 

1380

01:02:47,550 --> 01:02:49,080

Now, as far as in a film, yeah,

 

1381

01:02:50,430 --> 01:02:51,330

Thomas Jane: that's a tough one.

 

1382

01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:53,460

I don't know, there's so many.

 

1383

01:02:54,570 --> 01:02:57,120

There's so many films.

 

1384

01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:58,020

What's a film

 

1385

01:02:58,020 --> 01:02:58,110

Marc Preston: that

 

1386

01:02:58,110 --> 01:02:59,520

Thomas Jane: you wouldn't get tired of?

 

1387

01:02:59,520 --> 01:02:59,970

Jesus.

 

1388

01:02:59,970 --> 01:03:00,030

Yeah.

 

1389

01:03:00,030 --> 01:03:01,260

Marc Preston: What, what's

like, what's something that

 

1390

01:03:01,260 --> 01:03:02,460

comes on whenever it comes on?

 

1391

01:03:02,580 --> 01:03:04,230

What's, doesn't really

happen as much anymore?

 

1392

01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:06,630

Like where something comes on TV

is already playing and you say,

 

1393

01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:07,980

I'm gonna finish watching this.

 

1394

01:03:07,980 --> 01:03:09,540

You know, there is anything I, I mean,

 

1395

01:03:10,140 --> 01:03:15,120

Thomas Jane: a wild bunch, that's a film

that comes on and whenever it comes on,

 

1396

01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,220

of course you have to watch TCM like I do.

 

1397

01:03:17,700 --> 01:03:19,440

Uh, otherwise it'll never come on.

 

1398

01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:25,950

But, uh, when the Wild Bunch comes

on, um, that's a, that's a symphony,

 

1399

01:03:26,100 --> 01:03:30,390

you know, that's a symphony of

film that you, uh, might be able

 

1400

01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:33,360

to, to see different things in.

 

1401

01:03:33,450 --> 01:03:35,370

Um, you know, that that's the key.

 

1402

01:03:35,370 --> 01:03:38,040

You want, you wanna pick

something that you can C con

 

1403

01:03:38,460 --> 01:03:40,650

that's continually unfolding.

 

1404

01:03:40,650 --> 01:03:40,710

Yeah.

 

1405

01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:45,510

That you're finding new, new

meaning, new things, uh, inside.

 

1406

01:03:46,290 --> 01:03:49,560

Um, and, uh, then those

kind of movies are, uh.

 

1407

01:03:50,700 --> 01:03:52,440

Are few and far between.

 

1408

01:03:53,549 --> 01:03:55,170

Blade Runner is a one.

 

1409

01:03:55,170 --> 01:03:56,370

Blade Runner is a one.

 

1410

01:03:56,490 --> 01:03:57,265

Oh, yeah.

 

1411

01:03:57,265 --> 01:03:57,424

Yeah.

 

1412

01:03:57,424 --> 01:04:00,060

The, the orig the uh, uh,

watch that, that yeah.

 

1413

01:04:00,060 --> 01:04:00,870

That's the, you can

 

1414

01:04:00,870 --> 01:04:01,259

Marc Preston: always

 

1415

01:04:01,259 --> 01:04:01,859

Thomas Jane: find new

 

1416

01:04:01,859 --> 01:04:03,540

Marc Preston: things in, in Blade Runner.

 

1417

01:04:03,810 --> 01:04:06,480

Well, it's got that film noir

kind of vibe to it, you know?

 

1418

01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:06,870

Doesn't it?

 

1419

01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,200

Thomas Jane: The best, it's the

best combo of Phil Noir science

 

1420

01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:15,029

fictions Ever, ever made people,

people try, but, uh, that's the best.

 

1421

01:04:15,365 --> 01:04:17,009

Did, did, they did a remake

of that, didn't they?

 

1422

01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:17,850

Marc Preston: With um

 

1423

01:04:18,540 --> 01:04:18,900

Thomas Jane: Oh yeah.

 

1424

01:04:18,975 --> 01:04:19,265

Yeah.

 

1425

01:04:19,290 --> 01:04:19,770

It's great.

 

1426

01:04:19,890 --> 01:04:20,430

With Ryan.

 

1427

01:04:21,060 --> 01:04:22,109

Ryan Goslin was in it.

 

1428

01:04:22,109 --> 01:04:22,380

Yeah.

 

1429

01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,400

It's the one movie where you're like,

you know, if they had a producer cut.

 

1430

01:04:26,850 --> 01:04:27,900

It would've been brilliant.

 

1431

01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:32,670

It's just a, they let gave the, they

gave everybody a little too much leeway.

 

1432

01:04:33,150 --> 01:04:34,110

The movie's too long.

 

1433

01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:34,590

Yeah.

 

1434

01:04:34,590 --> 01:04:36,450

But brilliant.

 

1435

01:04:36,930 --> 01:04:39,990

I mean, as far as, you know,

movies that, that are too long,

 

1436

01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:41,490

it's, you know, one of the best.

 

1437

01:04:42,390 --> 01:04:42,570

Marc Preston: Yeah.

 

1438

01:04:42,570 --> 01:04:43,470

Talk about film noir.

 

1439

01:04:43,470 --> 01:04:46,290

The, uh, that was that Ryan

Reynolds film, was it Drive, I

 

1440

01:04:46,290 --> 01:04:47,490

think had a great soundtrack.

 

1441

01:04:47,490 --> 01:04:48,450

I had a vibe to it.

 

1442

01:04:48,455 --> 01:04:50,220

It kind of had a Drive

 

1443

01:04:50,220 --> 01:04:51,630

Thomas Jane: is one of my favorites.

 

1444

01:04:51,660 --> 01:04:51,990

Yeah.

 

1445

01:04:52,140 --> 01:04:53,640

Drive is right up my alley.

 

1446

01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:55,485

The soundtrack that was

just, that's right up my

 

1447

01:04:55,485 --> 01:04:55,645

alley.

 

1448

01:04:55,645 --> 01:04:55,845

Thomas Jane: Yeah.

 

1449

01:04:55,845 --> 01:04:56,245

Caught on.

 

1450

01:04:56,245 --> 01:04:56,405

Yeah.

 

1451

01:04:56,410 --> 01:04:56,490

Yeah.

 

1452

01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,140

Oh, and what a brilliant soundtrack.

 

1453

01:04:58,140 --> 01:04:58,770

Jesus.

 

1454

01:04:59,430 --> 01:05:00,540

I love the look of it.

 

1455

01:05:00,780 --> 01:05:01,950

I love the feel of it.

 

1456

01:05:02,190 --> 01:05:03,600

I love that actor in it.

 

1457

01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:04,140

The lead.

 

1458

01:05:04,380 --> 01:05:05,040

He's great.

 

1459

01:05:05,339 --> 01:05:05,940

Peak

 

1460

01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:06,390

Marc Preston: Peak.

 

1461

01:05:06,839 --> 01:05:10,770

So a movie like the film Noir, I think,

you know, does lean on the aesthetic,

 

1462

01:05:10,770 --> 01:05:14,250

the look, the, the energy you're picking

up, even when there's no dialogue.

 

1463

01:05:14,279 --> 01:05:15,000

I don't know, it's just you get

 

1464

01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,450

Thomas Jane: emotion from the

shadows and the light play.

 

1465

01:05:18,450 --> 01:05:18,509

Yeah.

 

1466

01:05:18,509 --> 01:05:24,240

And you know, if you're, if the, the peak

of film no noir, um, you could turn the

 

1467

01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,589

sound down, you know, and then when you

turn the sound up, it's somebody like

 

1468

01:05:28,589 --> 01:05:31,350

Billy Wilder who's written the screenplay.

 

1469

01:05:31,380 --> 01:05:33,900

So yeah, it doesn't really

get better than the, than the

 

1470

01:05:33,900 --> 01:05:35,130

Marc Preston: Phil Noir or the forties.

 

1471

01:05:35,130 --> 01:05:35,910

And for my money.

 

1472

01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:40,140

Now you've reinvigorated me to jump

on the, uh, the streamers and go start

 

1473

01:05:40,140 --> 01:05:42,029

digging up some older movies here.

 

1474

01:05:42,420 --> 01:05:42,569

Right Now.

 

1475

01:05:42,930 --> 01:05:46,410

The next question I got for you, uh, is,

is if you're to say from stem to stern,

 

1476

01:05:46,410 --> 01:05:50,520

from the time you get up, time you go to

bed, what for you are the component parts

 

1477

01:05:50,580 --> 01:05:52,620

of what would be a perfect day for you?

 

1478

01:05:52,830 --> 01:05:56,640

You know, you said this day rocked this,

is, this had all the right ingredients?

 

1479

01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:01,110

Thomas Jane: Well, right

now I am finishing a book

 

1480

01:06:01,140 --> 01:06:02,910

that I have written about.

 

1481

01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:09,690

Uh, aliens about visiting Aliens, alien

Intelligence, visiting Planet Earth.

 

1482

01:06:09,690 --> 01:06:15,090

It's a nonfiction book, and

I've been studying the subject

 

1483

01:06:15,090 --> 01:06:17,550

for, uh, I don't know, 15 years.

 

1484

01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,280

And, uh, we're hitting a really

interesting moment here in society

 

1485

01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,150

where this stuff is now starting to

bubble up to the, to the forefront.

 

1486

01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:31,800

You know, I spent years, and this was,

you know, u Ethological conventions

 

1487

01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:37,620

would just be, you know, 50 nerds in

the, the ballroom of a Holiday Inn.

 

1488

01:06:37,620 --> 01:06:39,990

But, but now it's, it's really grown.

 

1489

01:06:40,140 --> 01:06:44,160

Um, and we're, we're starting

to get an injection of serious,

 

1490

01:06:44,430 --> 01:06:46,470

uh, thought into the subject.

 

1491

01:06:46,530 --> 01:06:52,110

And the subject demands serious

thought, uh, because it challenges.

 

1492

01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:57,840

What we were talking about earlier,

it challenges humanity, uh, with,

 

1493

01:06:58,050 --> 01:07:01,350

um, a purpose, uh, with meaning.

 

1494

01:07:01,860 --> 01:07:07,890

It challenges us to, um, ask

ourselves what would it take to become

 

1495

01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:13,410

an, an interstellar civilization

beyond the, uh, technology?

 

1496

01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:15,540

It, it takes more than just technology.

 

1497

01:07:15,540 --> 01:07:20,430

It takes a coherence, uh, that

we currently don't have, but we

 

1498

01:07:20,820 --> 01:07:23,100

could learn a few things by, uh.

 

1499

01:07:23,805 --> 01:07:27,255

Studying the phenomenon

of visiting aliens.

 

1500

01:07:27,285 --> 01:07:27,435

Yeah.

 

1501

01:07:27,435 --> 01:07:27,495

The

 

1502

01:07:27,495 --> 01:07:30,135

Marc Preston: sociology of it is one

of the only things holding us back.

 

1503

01:07:30,135 --> 01:07:32,595

I remember Reagan had a, even,

he had some kind of a speech

 

1504

01:07:32,595 --> 01:07:34,785

you said of some alien thinking.

 

1505

01:07:34,785 --> 01:07:35,265

He mentioned

 

1506

01:07:35,265 --> 01:07:37,605

Thomas Jane: it several

times in his speeches.

 

1507

01:07:37,605 --> 01:07:43,035

You know, imagine if we were facing a

threat from, you know, and that's, um,

 

1508

01:07:44,205 --> 01:07:46,695

minor, that's a very minor concern.

 

1509

01:07:46,695 --> 01:07:51,975

You know, you have to think civilization's

capable of destroying their planets,

 

1510

01:07:51,975 --> 01:07:56,805

but haven't done so be and lived

long enough to become cosmological.

 

1511

01:07:57,255 --> 01:08:00,795

Uh, they've outgrown, uh, war.

 

1512

01:08:00,885 --> 01:08:02,325

They've outgrown territory.

 

1513

01:08:02,325 --> 01:08:04,845

They've outgrown resource depletion.

 

1514

01:08:05,145 --> 01:08:05,565

Okay.

 

1515

01:08:05,895 --> 01:08:07,125

They've figured out.

 

1516

01:08:07,430 --> 01:08:13,100

Uh, how to live in this world, in this

universe, and that's what we need to do.

 

1517

01:08:13,100 --> 01:08:15,140

We need to figure out how to live

 

1518

01:08:15,350 --> 01:08:16,880

Marc Preston: as opposed to just existing.

 

1519

01:08:16,885 --> 01:08:17,840

Yeah, yeah.

 

1520

01:08:17,845 --> 01:08:18,255

That's that.

 

1521

01:08:18,260 --> 01:08:18,440

And

 

1522

01:08:18,440 --> 01:08:19,790

Thomas Jane: destroying ourselves.

 

1523

01:08:19,790 --> 01:08:19,850

Yeah.

 

1524

01:08:19,850 --> 01:08:21,140

We're not just existing.

 

1525

01:08:21,170 --> 01:08:26,000

We are damaging the life giving

systems that gave us life.

 

1526

01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:26,990

We're damaging them.

 

1527

01:08:27,020 --> 01:08:31,010

We're not just subsisting,

we are causing damage.

 

1528

01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:34,040

And, you know, we're all like,

well, what can I do about it?

 

1529

01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,000

I, I marvel at the amount of

trash that I make every day.

 

1530

01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:38,930

Yeah.

 

1531

01:08:38,935 --> 01:08:40,069

And just living, yeah.

 

1532

01:08:40,069 --> 01:08:42,770

Just like, you know,

just, just the basics.

 

1533

01:08:42,770 --> 01:08:46,130

Like, not going to, you know,

buying a new pair of boots.

 

1534

01:08:46,130 --> 01:08:49,490

You know, I don't do any of

that stuff, but just living

 

1535

01:08:49,490 --> 01:08:51,800

life, I create so much trash.

 

1536

01:08:51,830 --> 01:08:55,460

And then you gotta, you gotta times

that by billions and you're like, wow.

 

1537

01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:55,790

Yeah.

 

1538

01:08:55,790 --> 01:08:55,800

Yeah.

 

1539

01:08:56,580 --> 01:08:58,529

Marc Preston: I was thinking

about that the other day also.

 

1540

01:08:58,529 --> 01:09:01,800

I was like, is it's just my kids are

off at school or it's just me and the

 

1541

01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,930

dog And I'm like, I'm taking the trash.

 

1542

01:09:03,930 --> 01:09:05,399

I'm like, how am I generating this much?

 

1543

01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:08,895

You know, I, I remember my eighth grade

history teacher told me when they, he,

 

1544

01:09:08,899 --> 01:09:12,690

he had lived it taught in Germany and

he remembered that he had this little

 

1545

01:09:12,690 --> 01:09:14,250

small trashcan in front of his house.

 

1546

01:09:14,250 --> 01:09:17,250

'cause they just didn't generate

the same amount of trash

 

1547

01:09:17,250 --> 01:09:18,375

trash that we did over here.

 

1548

01:09:18,404 --> 01:09:18,694

They

 

1549

01:09:18,694 --> 01:09:21,450

Thomas Jane: do the trash

cans are smaller in Europe.

 

1550

01:09:21,450 --> 01:09:22,710

You're absolutely right.

 

1551

01:09:23,220 --> 01:09:24,060

I remember having

 

1552

01:09:24,060 --> 01:09:25,109

Marc Preston: that same epiphany.

 

1553

01:09:25,290 --> 01:09:27,750

I don't know, it's weird 'cause

they say you get more conservative

 

1554

01:09:27,750 --> 01:09:28,649

as you get older from me.

 

1555

01:09:28,649 --> 01:09:32,730

I'm getting more like, you know, dialed

into things like really it's, well 'cause

 

1556

01:09:32,730 --> 01:09:37,020

grew up in a, in the eighties that was the

conspicuous consumption decade, you know?

 

1557

01:09:37,410 --> 01:09:37,590

Yeah.

 

1558

01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:41,520

So, so that was so kind of still

deprogramming from that, I guess.

 

1559

01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:41,880

I don't know.

 

1560

01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,180

Look, now that I'm not

chasing tail every day, uh.

 

1561

01:09:46,780 --> 01:09:49,930

It's amazing how much time that

frees up in your life, you know,

 

1562

01:09:49,930 --> 01:09:53,260

and you're not concerned about,

you know, peacocking and, you know,

 

1563

01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:54,520

Thomas Jane: and when you get older.

 

1564

01:09:54,520 --> 01:10:00,310

I think our job is to sort of, you know,

ma pose these questions and, uh, and

 

1565

01:10:00,310 --> 01:10:06,850

challenges to society, especially, uh,

as artists and as communicators, uh, that

 

1566

01:10:06,850 --> 01:10:11,590

becomes, you know, part, part of the,

uh, privilege of having, uh, been around

 

1567

01:10:11,745 --> 01:10:13,570

a, a few swings of the merry-go-round.

 

1568

01:10:14,179 --> 01:10:15,980

Marc Preston: You know that I was

thinking about that the other day,

 

1569

01:10:15,980 --> 01:10:19,070

that, you know, when, you know

you've lived long enough that some

 

1570

01:10:19,070 --> 01:10:20,450

people didn't make the full journey.

 

1571

01:10:20,450 --> 01:10:23,509

They departed early, you know, and,

and here you are, you're still here.

 

1572

01:10:23,719 --> 01:10:26,960

Got a couple gray hairs, and now

it's like, okay, well now it's

 

1573

01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,309

like, okay, where's a young person?

 

1574

01:10:28,309 --> 01:10:32,480

Lemme pass this along, as you know,

you know, and my kids are like,

 

1575

01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:35,000

you know, sometimes I swear they

almost wanna pat me on my head and

 

1576

01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,200

go, oh, bless your heart daddy.

 

1577

01:10:36,410 --> 01:10:36,469

Okay.

 

1578

01:10:36,469 --> 01:10:36,830

Yeah.

 

1579

01:10:36,830 --> 01:10:37,580

They don't wanna listen.

 

1580

01:10:38,090 --> 01:10:41,299

But the, but the important stuff, when I

say, okay, I really want you to listen.

 

1581

01:10:41,299 --> 01:10:44,224

I, I want to have those moments when

I know they're dialed in, you know?

 

1582

01:10:44,224 --> 01:10:44,505

Yeah.

 

1583

01:10:44,505 --> 01:10:45,545

It's like here, what I'm saying.

 

1584

01:10:45,605 --> 01:10:47,000

And the, the way to do that

 

1585

01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,080

Thomas Jane: is through story.

 

1586

01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:48,469

Mm-hmm.

 

1587

01:10:49,340 --> 01:10:49,429

Thomas Jane: Yes.

 

1588

01:10:49,429 --> 01:10:49,440

Yes.

 

1589

01:10:49,460 --> 01:10:54,650

And it's through compelling, uh, you know,

if things that we can create, I think

 

1590

01:10:54,650 --> 01:10:59,750

through the art that you, the work that

you do and that I do, we can, we can, uh.

 

1591

01:11:00,934 --> 01:11:04,030

Uh, we can add something

to the conversation

 

1592

01:11:04,030 --> 01:11:04,929

Marc Preston: that needs to be added.

 

1593

01:11:05,275 --> 01:11:06,639

A a hundred percent agree.

 

1594

01:11:06,700 --> 01:11:10,090

Uh, that brings me kind of to the next

question, which is, if you weren't

 

1595

01:11:10,090 --> 01:11:13,330

doing this, if, if they said, you

know, Thomas, man, the acting thing,

 

1596

01:11:13,330 --> 01:11:17,769

theater, all that, it is just not, it's

just not available to you, what right.

 

1597

01:11:17,769 --> 01:11:18,550

Would be your number two?

 

1598

01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:21,340

What would be the vocation

that you feeld bring your joy?

 

1599

01:11:21,635 --> 01:11:22,115

A writer.

 

1600

01:11:22,445 --> 01:11:22,985

Absolutely.

 

1601

01:11:22,985 --> 01:11:25,565

Thomas Jane: I absolutely,

I've thought I really love it.

 

1602

01:11:25,565 --> 01:11:28,115

It's taken me years to get any good at it.

 

1603

01:11:28,265 --> 01:11:31,415

Um, like everything, it

just takes time, you know?

 

1604

01:11:31,415 --> 01:11:33,005

And it takes work.

 

1605

01:11:33,065 --> 01:11:39,305

You know, I've been writing for,

uh, 10 years and nothing has come

 

1606

01:11:39,305 --> 01:11:43,325

out that I've would ever want

share with anybody until now.

 

1607

01:11:43,895 --> 01:11:48,725

So I've finally, you know, learned

how to string words together to form a

 

1608

01:11:48,725 --> 01:11:53,945

sentence that make a paragraph that then,

then, you know, can, can make a chapter.

 

1609

01:11:53,990 --> 01:11:58,325

I, I figured that that's no easy task

and I've figured out how to do that.

 

1610

01:11:58,955 --> 01:12:03,845

Um, and I really, you know, now

deeply appreciate more than ever,

 

1611

01:12:03,845 --> 01:12:07,505

I've always been a reader, but now I

deeply appreciate the craft and art of

 

1612

01:12:07,505 --> 01:12:09,005

writing, and that's what I'm into now.

 

1613

01:12:09,065 --> 01:12:10,055

Marc Preston: It's kinda like acting.

 

1614

01:12:10,055 --> 01:12:11,705

It's all about the choices you make.

 

1615

01:12:11,735 --> 01:12:15,725

Uh, you know, 'cause I mean, for me, I

would run into an issue of so much I'd

 

1616

01:12:15,725 --> 01:12:19,925

wanna put on paper that, you know, even

when I, when I have to do something, write

 

1617

01:12:19,925 --> 01:12:23,435

something which is more extensive, I'm

like, oh God, I gotta shorten this up.

 

1618

01:12:23,435 --> 01:12:23,975

You know,

 

1619

01:12:25,175 --> 01:12:27,185

Thomas Jane: the, the hard, that's

the hard part is making it shorter.

 

1620

01:12:27,185 --> 01:12:28,925

The hardest part of writing.

 

1621

01:12:29,170 --> 01:12:30,220

Is making it short.

 

1622

01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:30,640

Mm-hmm.

 

1623

01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,210

Like say what you wanna say with

as few words as possible and

 

1624

01:12:34,210 --> 01:12:37,780

as simple ideas as you possibly

can in a way that's not boring.

 

1625

01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:40,810

Um, takes a lot of work.

 

1626

01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:41,350

Yeah.

 

1627

01:12:41,410 --> 01:12:42,310

I, I'm one of those people.

 

1628

01:12:42,310 --> 01:12:45,520

I do a brain dump and then I just

kind of clean it up from there.

 

1629

01:12:45,550 --> 01:12:46,115

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

1630

01:12:46,330 --> 01:12:46,990

You gotta do that.

 

1631

01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,900

Let's, what Hemingway said, he

said, you know, I write a hundred

 

1632

01:12:49,900 --> 01:12:50,835

pages to get one good one.

 

1633

01:12:51,895 --> 01:12:52,945

Marc Preston: Yeah, I, I

think you ought to do it.

 

1634

01:12:52,945 --> 01:12:55,915

'cause if you're, if you're throttling

or filtering yourself, you're, you're

 

1635

01:12:55,915 --> 01:12:57,625

not, you're maybe holding something back.

 

1636

01:12:57,625 --> 01:12:58,285

It needs to get out.

 

1637

01:12:58,285 --> 01:13:00,805

Like, oh yeah, okay, now I can

take this somewhere, you know?

 

1638

01:13:01,075 --> 01:13:01,345

Thomas Jane: Right.

 

1639

01:13:01,465 --> 01:13:03,025

Drunk edit sober.

 

1640

01:13:03,140 --> 01:13:05,155

I, I write sober and edit sober.

 

1641

01:13:05,155 --> 01:13:09,715

But, but that's the general, you know,

you can get into the spirit of that

 

1642

01:13:09,715 --> 01:13:11,815

without an actual bottle of alcohol.

 

1643

01:13:12,025 --> 01:13:16,555

You, you can, you can

write freely and then edit.

 

1644

01:13:16,825 --> 01:13:17,725

Um, concise

 

1645

01:13:18,445 --> 01:13:21,925

Marc Preston: ruthlessly Well, as a

writer, just one, one question on that

 

1646

01:13:21,925 --> 01:13:23,995

is, if you said what inspires you?

 

1647

01:13:23,995 --> 01:13:25,945

What, what lights the fuse for you?

 

1648

01:13:25,945 --> 01:13:31,585

Usually song or a relationship or what,

what kind of are, are watching something,

 

1649

01:13:31,585 --> 01:13:33,625

what usually fires that up for you?

 

1650

01:13:34,155 --> 01:13:38,085

Thomas Jane: Well, I mean, right now

it's the research, you know, it's, uh,

 

1651

01:13:38,625 --> 01:13:43,275

right now I get fired up when I discover

and put a new connection together

 

1652

01:13:43,275 --> 01:13:48,764

between two pieces of information that

I've learned through the research I'm

 

1653

01:13:48,764 --> 01:13:55,545

doing about, um, uh, visiting aliens

or UFOs or the government interaction

 

1654

01:13:55,545 --> 01:14:00,585

with those things or personal

experiences that people have had.

 

1655

01:14:00,585 --> 01:14:05,115

We have a fan, beautiful thing about

the internet, and the reason why

 

1656

01:14:05,115 --> 01:14:10,485

this is bubbling to the surface of

society now is because we've collected

 

1657

01:14:10,485 --> 01:14:13,755

stories over decades since the 1940s.

 

1658

01:14:13,755 --> 01:14:19,245

We've had stories not just of lights in

the sky, not just of structured craft, but

 

1659

01:14:19,245 --> 01:14:24,135

actual interactions with alien beings and.

 

1660

01:14:24,980 --> 01:14:28,070

What you don't know until you

actually look is that we have

 

1661

01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:33,650

thousands and thousands of these

encounters that have been recorded

 

1662

01:14:33,740 --> 01:14:36,680

by dutiful, uh, ufologists mm-hmm.

 

1663

01:14:37,220 --> 01:14:40,970

Over the years, who on their own

dime would go and find these people

 

1664

01:14:40,970 --> 01:14:47,300

and interview them and suss them out

and, and give us the details so that

 

1665

01:14:47,300 --> 01:14:51,560

now we have the technology where

we can put all these stories in one

 

1666

01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:55,100

place and create kind of a database.

 

1667

01:14:55,130 --> 01:14:57,230

You know, we, we don't

have an actual data.

 

1668

01:14:57,235 --> 01:15:00,860

We, we have databases for a

sightings, but what we don't have is

 

1669

01:15:00,860 --> 01:15:03,050

an actual database for encounters,

 

1670

01:15:03,110 --> 01:15:05,240

Marc Preston: alien encounters

where you kind of connect all

 

1671

01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:07,610

the dots and go, because there

is, I was watching something.

 

1672

01:15:07,610 --> 01:15:08,990

There is similarities.

 

1673

01:15:08,990 --> 01:15:10,250

I mean, for stuff that's even.

 

1674

01:15:10,585 --> 01:15:11,845

Around the other side of the world.

 

1675

01:15:11,845 --> 01:15:13,705

You know, there, there are

certain things which are common.

 

1676

01:15:13,705 --> 01:15:13,855

We have

 

1677

01:15:13,945 --> 01:15:18,025

Thomas Jane: similarities between the

beings in some ca the other thing people

 

1678

01:15:18,025 --> 01:15:23,095

don't realize is how many different

species people report encountering.

 

1679

01:15:23,245 --> 01:15:27,595

You know, we think it's like the

one big eye gray alien, uh, or,

 

1680

01:15:27,655 --> 01:15:29,335

you know, maybe a praying mantis.

 

1681

01:15:29,455 --> 01:15:30,955

Insects like alien.

 

1682

01:15:31,015 --> 01:15:36,535

There's a handful, but there's actually

hundreds, which is bizarre and nobody has

 

1683

01:15:36,535 --> 01:15:38,335

been able to wrap their mind around that.

 

1684

01:15:38,815 --> 01:15:42,205

But I would love to create a

database of alien encounters.

 

1685

01:15:42,265 --> 01:15:47,245

Um, but what we do have is I've got a

database in my head, and when I, and

 

1686

01:15:47,245 --> 01:15:51,925

when I discover new, new facts and

I, we can put the start to put the

 

1687

01:15:51,925 --> 01:15:55,975

pieces together in, in new ways that

we just didn't have access to before.

 

1688

01:15:56,095 --> 01:15:58,255

Marc Preston: You know,

I saw Michu Kaku, uh.

 

1689

01:15:58,335 --> 01:16:02,145

The, the theoretical physicist

talking about this three I Atlas

 

1690

01:16:02,150 --> 01:16:03,615

have, have you been following this?

 

1691

01:16:03,615 --> 01:16:03,795

Mm-hmm.

 

1692

01:16:04,065 --> 01:16:05,595

That it's a little bit, yeah.

 

1693

01:16:05,595 --> 01:16:06,975

It's, it's really kind of intriguing.

 

1694

01:16:06,975 --> 01:16:13,185

Just, uh, you know, it's just for like how

random this is and how, uh, in terms I'm

 

1695

01:16:13,185 --> 01:16:16,245

no expert on physics, you know, but Right.

 

1696

01:16:16,425 --> 01:16:19,935

But how many things about

it are not adding up to our

 

1697

01:16:20,205 --> 01:16:21,375

understanding of physics, which is

 

1698

01:16:21,375 --> 01:16:22,395

Thomas Jane: really interesting.

 

1699

01:16:22,395 --> 01:16:22,845

Yeah.

 

1700

01:16:22,845 --> 01:16:25,035

So at the very least, we're

gonna learn a hell of a lot.

 

1701

01:16:25,035 --> 01:16:31,125

We've only just gotten the, uh, capability

to look for objects that come from inters

 

1702

01:16:31,125 --> 01:16:34,395

that are interstellar, that aren't,

that aren't part of our solar system.

 

1703

01:16:34,395 --> 01:16:35,175

Just like in the last

 

1704

01:16:35,175 --> 01:16:37,490

Marc Preston: 10 years I think is when

that thing came online and now we're

 

1705

01:16:37,665 --> 01:16:40,005

Thomas Jane: starting to find them,

you know, and I think we don't know

 

1706

01:16:40,005 --> 01:16:44,745

how many we've missed, you know,

uh, before we had this capability.

 

1707

01:16:44,985 --> 01:16:46,485

So we are not really sure.

 

1708

01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:53,520

What constitutes super unusual because

we're just now, you know, um, gathering

 

1709

01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:59,040

the data, but three Alis is certainly

unusual and definitely worth, uh,

 

1710

01:16:59,100 --> 01:17:03,420

following up on Avi Loeb seems to

think it's a, in, you know, it's

 

1711

01:17:03,420 --> 01:17:05,280

the size of Manhattan, first of all.

 

1712

01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:05,340

Yeah.

 

1713

01:17:05,345 --> 01:17:09,905

Which is not impossible for with

an alien technology, but, but, um.

 

1714

01:17:11,655 --> 01:17:17,475

I think that it's good to raise

awareness of, uh, of the situation.

 

1715

01:17:17,475 --> 01:17:21,045

I don't think three I Atlas is

gonna turn out to be a spaceship.

 

1716

01:17:21,225 --> 01:17:23,775

Maybe I'll be wrong and

that would be insane.

 

1717

01:17:23,985 --> 01:17:24,795

That would be so cool.

 

1718

01:17:24,795 --> 01:17:24,975

It would

 

1719

01:17:24,975 --> 01:17:28,635

Marc Preston: be such a nice distraction

from all the other ship dealing right now.

 

1720

01:17:28,635 --> 01:17:28,905

You know?

 

1721

01:17:28,905 --> 01:17:30,045

I mean, it's just like.

 

1722

01:17:30,440 --> 01:17:33,170

Uh, an alien encounter, I

think would be just the reset

 

1723

01:17:33,170 --> 01:17:35,360

button we need, but, uh, yeah.

 

1724

01:17:35,660 --> 01:17:36,145

Right, right.

 

1725

01:17:36,260 --> 01:17:36,440

If

 

1726

01:17:36,440 --> 01:17:37,160

Marc Preston: we can handle it.

 

1727

01:17:37,305 --> 01:17:37,505

Yeah.

 

1728

01:17:37,610 --> 01:17:40,580

But no, I, I think that there

is a, uh, it, it, it gets

 

1729

01:17:40,580 --> 01:17:42,260

the philosophical side going.

 

1730

01:17:42,260 --> 01:17:44,480

It just, that kinda stuff

is cool to groove on.

 

1731

01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:48,380

Just like, what if, and you know,

what, you know, how would we pro now

 

1732

01:17:48,410 --> 01:17:52,820

my philosophy is if there's stuff out

there is, if there's information that's

 

1733

01:17:52,820 --> 01:17:54,170

not being, just put it all out there.

 

1734

01:17:54,170 --> 01:17:56,870

I think, I think humans

can handle all of it.

 

1735

01:17:56,990 --> 01:17:57,080

Mm-hmm.

 

1736

01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:00,740

And it's not gonna fundamentally change

the way they operate day to day, you know?

 

1737

01:18:01,070 --> 01:18:02,540

But it, it's, uh, yeah,

 

1738

01:18:02,540 --> 01:18:04,550

Thomas Jane: you still have to go

to work, you know, it's like quantum

 

1739

01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:07,910

physics, you know, you discover

the, everything's quantum and the

 

1740

01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:13,160

ob the observer is integral to the,

uh, double split slit experiment.

 

1741

01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:17,085

But, you know, and you still have to sort

of brush your teeth, eat dinner, you know,

 

1742

01:18:17,390 --> 01:18:20,450

Marc Preston: uh, I don't know what

the psychological, uh, philosophy

 

1743

01:18:20,450 --> 01:18:25,850

is on it, but there's so much, um,

stuff that we consume that comes in.

 

1744

01:18:25,850 --> 01:18:27,860

And I think we were not programmed.

 

1745

01:18:28,565 --> 01:18:30,184

I think we were meant to live in a tribe.

 

1746

01:18:30,545 --> 01:18:31,415

Uh, and that's right.

 

1747

01:18:31,415 --> 01:18:34,445

We take, we under, we have a,

a awareness of maybe a hundred

 

1748

01:18:34,445 --> 01:18:35,615

people around us and like that.

 

1749

01:18:35,915 --> 01:18:37,955

But now, that's, now it's like

I have to put my phone down.

 

1750

01:18:37,955 --> 01:18:41,795

There's just too much news, too much,

and it kind of pushes outta the way

 

1751

01:18:41,855 --> 01:18:44,405

how much time I want to dedicate

to things that do interest me.

 

1752

01:18:44,410 --> 01:18:44,580

Yeah.

 

1753

01:18:45,639 --> 01:18:50,315

Thomas Jane: And um, and it's also

a system that can be monopolized

 

1754

01:18:50,315 --> 01:18:52,054

for purposes of control.

 

1755

01:18:52,144 --> 01:18:52,325

Uh, yeah.

 

1756

01:18:52,355 --> 01:18:53,165

So we all have

 

1757

01:18:53,165 --> 01:18:55,775

Marc Preston: to be aware of that,

what they call flooding the zone is

 

1758

01:18:55,775 --> 01:18:57,184

the phrase you're using these days.

 

1759

01:18:57,184 --> 01:18:57,485

Yeah.

 

1760

01:18:57,724 --> 01:19:00,844

Well, last question I got is, if

you're to jump into DeLorean, you go

 

1761

01:19:00,844 --> 01:19:04,835

back to when you're, uh, 16, you got

that piece of advice, wisdom to try.

 

1762

01:19:04,835 --> 01:19:06,724

You only got a couple

minutes with you at 16.

 

1763

01:19:07,115 --> 01:19:12,575

What are you telling yourself to make

that moment a little bit better or set

 

1764

01:19:12,575 --> 01:19:13,894

yourself in a little bit different path?

 

1765

01:19:14,075 --> 01:19:16,295

What advice would you have

for yourself back then?

 

1766

01:19:17,285 --> 01:19:19,085

Thomas Jane: I would

just say trust yourself.

 

1767

01:19:19,115 --> 01:19:22,565

Uh, more, you know, just

trust what you wanna do.

 

1768

01:19:22,594 --> 01:19:23,675

Trust yourself.

 

1769

01:19:23,735 --> 01:19:25,925

Um, I, uh.

 

1770

01:19:26,785 --> 01:19:34,620

I, I, I wasn't aware of, uh, the

gifts that I had, that I have and had.

 

1771

01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:42,510

Um, uh, when you're immersed in, uh,

your personal experience, you're just

 

1772

01:19:42,510 --> 01:19:50,310

not, you're not, you're not awake to

sort of, um, the, uh, uh, the tapestry

 

1773

01:19:50,310 --> 01:19:52,680

that you're a part of and getting older.

 

1774

01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:56,610

You can sort of begin to, to see some

of the tapestry that you're a part

 

1775

01:19:56,610 --> 01:19:57,690

of, and you're like, you know what?

 

1776

01:19:57,990 --> 01:19:59,940

You know, you have a, you have a purpose.

 

1777

01:19:59,940 --> 01:20:00,960

You have a reason to be here.

 

1778

01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,190

You have something to offer.

 

1779

01:20:02,610 --> 01:20:05,250

Uh, you're good at stuff

that other people aren't.

 

1780

01:20:05,940 --> 01:20:07,230

Um, so trust that.

 

1781

01:20:07,410 --> 01:20:08,099

Trust it.

 

1782

01:20:08,370 --> 01:20:08,430

Yeah.

 

1783

01:20:08,430 --> 01:20:12,150

Do you have an ETA when you would

like your book to, to come out?

 

1784

01:20:12,150 --> 01:20:16,080

I'm definitely finishing it before the end

of the year, so it'll be out next year.

 

1785

01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,710

I want to get it out as soon as possible

because, you know, six months go by

 

1786

01:20:19,710 --> 01:20:21,420

and the damn book will be outta date.

 

1787

01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:22,230

Mm-hmm.

 

1788

01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:26,280

Uh, with the pace of things

that are happening in the world.

 

1789

01:20:26,309 --> 01:20:30,930

But it's called a Human's Guide

to Visiting Aliens and, uh.

 

1790

01:20:31,305 --> 01:20:33,045

I'm gonna get it out, uh,

 

1791

01:20:33,075 --> 01:20:34,125

Marc Preston: sooner than later.

 

1792

01:20:34,215 --> 01:20:36,945

Well, Tom, Matt, I really appreciate

you sharing some time with me today.

 

1793

01:20:37,005 --> 01:20:37,875

Uh, it means a lot.

 

1794

01:20:38,055 --> 01:20:38,625

Great dog on it.

 

1795

01:20:38,625 --> 01:20:40,905

This is, uh, this is

always a lot of fun for me.

 

1796

01:20:41,085 --> 01:20:41,955

I had a good time.

 

1797

01:20:43,725 --> 01:20:44,115

Alright.

 

1798

01:20:44,115 --> 01:20:44,595

There you go.

 

1799

01:20:44,595 --> 01:20:48,285

Thomas Jane, uh, enjoyed

our sit down hour.

 

1800

01:20:48,555 --> 01:20:50,295

Little session of talking story.

 

1801

01:20:50,295 --> 01:20:54,225

Uh, just a cool guy, uh, really

enjoyed the opportunity to, uh, just

 

1802

01:20:54,225 --> 01:20:55,965

kind of connect, uh, the new film.

 

1803

01:20:55,965 --> 01:20:56,865

Make sure to check him out.

 

1804

01:20:56,865 --> 01:20:58,155

Amazon Prime video.

 

1805

01:20:58,155 --> 01:20:59,865

It is called Play Dirty.

 

1806

01:20:59,925 --> 01:21:03,585

Coming back together with His Boogie

Knights CoStar, Marc Wahlberg for

 

1807

01:21:03,585 --> 01:21:05,235

this, uh, this, this new film.

 

1808

01:21:05,595 --> 01:21:07,875

And, uh, check out out the

rest of his body of work.

 

1809

01:21:07,875 --> 01:21:10,575

I'm going through Troppo

right now on Prime Video.

 

1810

01:21:10,875 --> 01:21:12,045

Uh, really enjoying that.

 

1811

01:21:12,045 --> 01:21:16,335

So, uh, Thomas Jane, uh, really

enjoyed the opportunity to, uh,

 

1812

01:21:16,365 --> 01:21:18,045

sit down and talk story with him.

 

1813

01:21:18,365 --> 01:21:19,325

And, uh, do me a favor.

 

1814

01:21:19,325 --> 01:21:23,434

If you would just make sure

to like story and craft on

 

1815

01:21:23,434 --> 01:21:24,995

your podcast listening device.

 

1816

01:21:24,995 --> 01:21:28,804

Follow the show, get notifications

every time a new episode comes out, uh,

 

1817

01:21:28,804 --> 01:21:32,915

and just, uh, you know, leave stars,

thumbs up and all that good jazz.

 

1818

01:21:32,974 --> 01:21:36,275

You know, whatever you gotta

do helps people find story and

 

1819

01:21:36,275 --> 01:21:38,165

craft, which I appreciate greatly.

 

1820

01:21:38,165 --> 01:21:42,184

Also, if you go to

story and craft pod.com.

 

1821

01:21:42,505 --> 01:21:45,445

Everything about the show

is right there, past guests.

 

1822

01:21:45,445 --> 01:21:46,675

You can even shoot me a note.

 

1823

01:21:47,005 --> 01:21:48,085

It's just all right there.

 

1824

01:21:48,325 --> 01:21:48,775

Uh, okay.

 

1825

01:21:48,775 --> 01:21:53,305

So as I always say, thank you so very much

for making, uh, whatever I've got going

 

1826

01:21:53,305 --> 01:21:55,375

on here, part of what you've got going on.

 

1827

01:21:55,495 --> 01:21:56,635

It does mean a lot to me.

 

1828

01:21:56,665 --> 01:22:00,505

Uh, look forward to checking back

in with you, uh, here very shortly

 

1829

01:22:00,625 --> 01:22:05,785

for another great guests and chat

right here on Story and Craft.

 

1830

01:22:05,845 --> 01:22:08,575

Announcer: That's it for this

episode of Story and Craft.

 

1831

01:22:08,635 --> 01:22:11,065

Join Marc next week for more conversation.

 

1832

01:22:11,275 --> 01:22:15,475

Right here on Story and Craft

Story and Craft is a presentation

 

1833

01:22:15,535 --> 01:22:17,545

of Marc Preston Production's, LLC.

 

1834

01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:23,500

Executive Producer is Marc Preston,

associate producer is Zachary Holden.

 

1835

01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:27,370

Please rate and review story

and craft on Apple Podcasts.

 

1836

01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:31,600

Don't forget to subscribe to the

show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

 

1837

01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:33,190

or your favorite podcast app.

 

1838

01:22:33,550 --> 01:22:36,490

You can subscribe to, show

updates, and stay in the know.

 

1839

01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:40,780

Just head to story and craft pod.com

and sign up for the newsletter.

 

1840

01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:42,250

I'm Emma Dylan.

 

1841

01:22:42,550 --> 01:22:43,450

See you next time.

 

1842

01:22:43,660 --> 01:22:46,060

And remember, keep telling your story.

 

1843

01:22:50,795 --> 01:22:55,715

You walk into a little grocery shop in uh,

France, and you get the best chocolate.

 

1844

01:22:55,865 --> 01:22:58,205

You know, it's just like they,

when they make something,

 

1845

01:22:58,205 --> 01:22:59,645

they make it right out here.

 

1846

01:22:59,645 --> 01:23:01,265

I don't know what the hell they put in it.

 

1847

01:23:01,385 --> 01:23:02,105

It's awful.

 

1848

01:23:02,405 --> 01:23:04,055

Welcome to Story Craft.

 

1849

01:23:04,565 --> 01:23:06,755

Now here's your host, Marc Preston.

 

1850

01:23:06,845 --> 01:23:07,445

Hey, how's it going?

 

1851

01:23:07,445 --> 01:23:11,975

It's Marc Preston back again,

another episode of Story and Draft.

 

1852

01:23:12,235 --> 01:23:14,905

If this is your very first

episode, well welcome.

 

1853

01:23:14,905 --> 01:23:16,645

Thank you so much for stopping by.

 

1854

01:23:16,795 --> 01:23:19,195

Uh, hey, if you've been

here before, thank you.

 

1855

01:23:19,255 --> 01:23:20,455

I know it's been a few weeks.

 

1856

01:23:20,455 --> 01:23:21,325

It's been a moment.

 

1857

01:23:21,325 --> 01:23:22,105

I know, I know.

 

1858

01:23:22,435 --> 01:23:23,305

Uh, don't be too mad.

 

1859

01:23:23,335 --> 01:23:28,285

I had a big project I had to get put to

bed and locked down, and it is finished.

 

1860

01:23:28,285 --> 01:23:29,245

So Yay.

 

1861

01:23:29,245 --> 01:23:32,785

You and I get to spend more time together,

and that's really where I wanna be.

 

1862

01:23:32,785 --> 01:23:36,505

Just you and I here together, and

of course, with our guest today,

 

1863

01:23:36,625 --> 01:23:39,055

the talented actor Thomas Jane.

 

1864

01:23:39,085 --> 01:23:42,535

I mean, you know, Thomas, he's,

he's been around a, a long time

 

1865

01:23:42,535 --> 01:23:45,055

constellation of really cool projects.

 

1866

01:23:45,115 --> 01:23:48,265

Uh, he, uh, of course was in The Expanse.

 

1867

01:23:48,385 --> 01:23:52,075

If you've listened to the show, you know,

I love The Expanse, my son and I, uh,

 

1868

01:23:52,105 --> 01:23:54,175

Zachary and I, uh, it's one of our shows.

 

1869

01:23:54,445 --> 01:23:59,845

He's also been in, uh, HBO's Hung

and, uh, Troppo, which is a cool show.

 

1870

01:23:59,845 --> 01:24:03,085

I, I, I knew it was out there, I just

hadn't had a chance to check it out.

 

1871

01:24:03,175 --> 01:24:06,625

After, uh, chatting with Thomas, I

went already been through the first.

 

1872

01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:08,410

Season and a half I think.

 

1873

01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:09,310

Uh, enjoy it.

 

1874

01:24:09,310 --> 01:24:10,330

Shot in Australia.

 

1875

01:24:10,630 --> 01:24:13,600

Uh, in the last year, I think this

is like my fourth show I've gotten

 

1876

01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:15,430

into that's produced in Australia.

 

1877

01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:17,710

They do some, uh, great TV in Australia.

 

1878

01:24:18,010 --> 01:24:20,140

In fact, in fact, I

would love to say hello.

 

1879

01:24:20,230 --> 01:24:23,770

I know there's a lot, uh, uh, folks

checking out the show in Australia.

 

1880

01:24:24,070 --> 01:24:27,130

I don't know if there's something in

the water, uh, besides crocodiles.

 

1881

01:24:27,130 --> 01:24:27,730

I don't know.

 

1882

01:24:28,060 --> 01:24:30,340

Uh, but I have a lot of folks checking in.

 

1883

01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:35,320

Uh, you know, and I think outside

of the us uh, I think that's where.

 

1884

01:24:35,740 --> 01:24:38,530

We have a, a phenomenal amount

of folks checking us out.

 

1885

01:24:38,530 --> 01:24:43,540

So, hey, if you're in Melbourne, Brisbane,

uh, Sydney, Perth, wherever you happen

 

1886

01:24:43,540 --> 01:24:47,620

to be, uh, gold Coast, which I really

would love to check out one day, uh,

 

1887

01:24:47,650 --> 01:24:49,480

thank you so much for, uh, stopping by.

 

1888

01:24:49,540 --> 01:24:50,620

So, hello Australia.

 

1889

01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:53,830

Uh, and of course you may remember,

I mean, if you go all the way back, I

 

1890

01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:56,350

mean, he was like in Boogie Nights in 97.

 

1891

01:24:56,500 --> 01:25:00,190

Uh, of course he was in that film

with Marc Wahlberg, who is in

 

1892

01:25:00,190 --> 01:25:02,560

his new film called Play Dirty.

 

1893

01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,300

It is on Amazon Prime Video.

 

1894

01:25:04,630 --> 01:25:07,180

Uh, you can check it out right now.

 

1895

01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:09,610

You know, Thomas, uh, really

enjoyed chatting with him.

 

1896

01:25:09,700 --> 01:25:12,190

Uh, do me a favor, by the way, if

you would make sure to grab your

 

1897

01:25:12,190 --> 01:25:17,890

podcast listening device and, uh,

make sure to follow story and craft.

 

1898

01:25:17,940 --> 01:25:20,700

Get notifications every time

a new episode rolls out.

 

1899

01:25:20,790 --> 01:25:24,510

Also leave, uh, some stars,

uh, likes, thumbs up, whatever.

 

1900

01:25:24,510 --> 01:25:26,550

Throw some glitter or tinsel.

 

1901

01:25:26,550 --> 01:25:27,960

I mean, it is that time of year.

 

1902

01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,710

Uh, you know, it helps people find

story and craft, which is uber

 

1903

01:25:31,710 --> 01:25:33,480

cool, and I appreciate you greatly.

 

1904

01:25:33,540 --> 01:25:36,090

So also, everything about

the show, check it out.

 

1905

01:25:36,090 --> 01:25:37,320

Story and craft po.

 

1906

01:25:38,035 --> 01:25:38,665

Dot com.

 

1907

01:25:38,665 --> 01:25:43,945

Once again, story and craft pod.com,

everything about the show's right there.

 

1908

01:25:44,005 --> 01:25:46,165

So let's jump into it today.

 

1909

01:25:46,225 --> 01:25:48,055

Uh, really enjoyed this conversation.

 

1910

01:25:48,055 --> 01:25:53,665

We talked about everything from chocolate

to aliens to, you know, great authors.

 

1911

01:25:53,665 --> 01:25:55,375

I mean, we just covered a lot of ground.

 

1912

01:25:55,465 --> 01:25:59,575

I mean, this is a guy I would sit down

and just love to have a beer with one day.

 

1913

01:25:59,575 --> 01:26:02,215

So, uh, he's, he's one

of those cool dudes.

 

1914

01:26:02,245 --> 01:26:05,035

You just wanna sit down with kind

of one of those guys who's, who's

 

1915

01:26:05,035 --> 01:26:08,785

got some great stories to tell and,

uh, is just a great storyteller.

 

1916

01:26:08,845 --> 01:26:10,885

So, uh, let's get after it today.

 

1917

01:26:10,945 --> 01:26:14,545

It's Thomas Jane Day right

here on Story and Craft.

 

1918

01:26:16,255 --> 01:26:17,575

Where are you joining me from today?

 

1919

01:26:17,875 --> 01:26:21,505

I'm in, uh, silver Lake, uh, Los Angeles.

 

1920

01:26:21,865 --> 01:26:25,315

Is that your original home base,

or did you, uh, find your way to

 

1921

01:26:25,315 --> 01:26:27,265

LA from, uh, points elsewhere?

 

1922

01:26:27,685 --> 01:26:29,185

I came in from Maryland.

 

1923

01:26:29,425 --> 01:26:36,745

I grew up in the sticks of Maryland, um,

outside of dc about an hour outside of dc.

 

1924

01:26:37,325 --> 01:26:41,165

Left home at an early age and,

uh, drove across the country.

 

1925

01:26:41,765 --> 01:26:47,735

I didn't have any money, so I figured

it would be warmer on the west coast.

 

1926

01:26:47,795 --> 01:26:51,575

You know, I wanted to go to acting school

and there was one in New York and one,

 

1927

01:26:51,635 --> 01:26:53,375

and there was one in LA that I liked.

 

1928

01:26:53,375 --> 01:26:58,085

And, and so I came out here so I

could, you know, not freeze to death.

 

1929

01:26:58,445 --> 01:27:02,045

I hear the food is good in, in

Maryland, you know, the crabs.

 

1930

01:27:02,045 --> 01:27:02,315

Yeah.

 

1931

01:27:02,525 --> 01:27:07,085

Being close to dc Were any of your

parents in the DC machine at all, or?

 

1932

01:27:07,115 --> 01:27:07,355

No.

 

1933

01:27:07,355 --> 01:27:10,055

My dad was into microbiology.

 

1934

01:27:10,385 --> 01:27:11,945

He got into it early.

 

1935

01:27:12,875 --> 01:27:13,805

He the seventies.

 

1936

01:27:13,805 --> 01:27:15,605

So, uh.

 

1937

01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:21,830

That's basically the hub of

the, uh, microbiology, you know,

 

1938

01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:24,020

NHI and all that's over there.

 

1939

01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:24,170

Okay.

 

1940

01:27:24,170 --> 01:27:26,960

So that's basically why we were there.

 

1941

01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:31,370

He started a couple of companies,

you know, working in Biogenetics.

 

1942

01:27:31,490 --> 01:27:34,640

Did you have any siblings that

also chose kind of the path you did

 

1943

01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,940

or they go the nor were they more

into the sites, things like that?

 

1944

01:27:37,940 --> 01:27:39,410

No, they're all kind of normies.

 

1945

01:27:39,410 --> 01:27:40,040

Yeah.

 

1946

01:27:40,130 --> 01:27:43,430

I'm the oldest, um, of six really.

 

1947

01:27:43,820 --> 01:27:48,200

Uh, I've got four brothers and

I had a sister, but she's dead.

 

1948

01:27:49,070 --> 01:27:50,240

And, um.

 

1949

01:27:51,075 --> 01:27:56,325

It's just like a mess of boys and

they're all, most of them are out here.

 

1950

01:27:56,325 --> 01:27:59,655

Three brothers are out here and

one of them is back east, near

 

1951

01:27:59,655 --> 01:28:03,225

close to my mom and pop, which is

good 'cause they're getting on.

 

1952

01:28:03,285 --> 01:28:03,765

Right.

 

1953

01:28:04,035 --> 01:28:06,315

Well, so they ended up out, uh, out west.

 

1954

01:28:06,435 --> 01:28:09,585

Jesus kind of set the template and

like, okay, big brothers going.

 

1955

01:28:09,585 --> 01:28:10,815

I guess I did.

 

1956

01:28:10,815 --> 01:28:11,205

Yeah.

 

1957

01:28:11,205 --> 01:28:14,685

They all kind of followed me out here

after a few years, you know, I mean,

 

1958

01:28:14,685 --> 01:28:18,495

I left, they were still in school,

but you know, when they got out they

 

1959

01:28:18,495 --> 01:28:20,715

decided the west coast might not be bad.

 

1960

01:28:20,895 --> 01:28:23,865

I'm trying to remember the first

time you kind of came into my.

 

1961

01:28:24,290 --> 01:28:26,120

Uh, we're I boogie nights?

 

1962

01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:26,450

Definitely.

 

1963

01:28:26,450 --> 01:28:27,680

And here you are making a return.

 

1964

01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:30,170

Was there any, uh, you and Marc Wahlberg?

 

1965

01:28:30,170 --> 01:28:32,660

Did y'all have any kind

of like right play?

 

1966

01:28:32,745 --> 01:28:34,190

Did y Yeah, we did.

 

1967

01:28:34,190 --> 01:28:34,370

How?

 

1968

01:28:34,370 --> 01:28:34,670

Wow.

 

1969

01:28:34,670 --> 01:28:37,605

On like, okay man, look at all

the years we did and we told,

 

1970

01:28:37,850 --> 01:28:39,740

we told some good stories.

 

1971

01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:42,290

Um, that was fun.

 

1972

01:28:42,290 --> 01:28:43,370

That was really fun.

 

1973

01:28:43,370 --> 01:28:45,230

Reuniting with Wahlberg.

 

1974

01:28:45,410 --> 01:28:48,080

Uh, and we got to hang out for a few days.

 

1975

01:28:48,140 --> 01:28:50,510

And of course, I love Shane Black, so.

 

1976

01:28:50,915 --> 01:28:52,805

Anything he asked me to do, I'll do it.

 

1977

01:28:53,345 --> 01:28:56,675

Um, yeah, that was that first movie that

everybody kinda looked at, uh, Marcy Marc

 

1978

01:28:56,675 --> 01:28:58,445

and go, yeah, yeah, he is got the chops.

 

1979

01:28:58,445 --> 01:28:58,865

Okay.

 

1980

01:28:58,865 --> 01:28:59,795

He can do this thing.

 

1981

01:28:59,825 --> 01:29:01,385

I mean, well, he had a great director.

 

1982

01:29:01,445 --> 01:29:01,715

Oh yeah.

 

1983

01:29:01,715 --> 01:29:02,855

Paul Thomas, and he's good.

 

1984

01:29:03,335 --> 01:29:07,145

Uh, he's great, you know,

but old Marc is, he's solid.

 

1985

01:29:07,145 --> 01:29:09,905

He does his thing and, uh,

he does it really well.

 

1986

01:29:10,475 --> 01:29:10,625

Yeah.

 

1987

01:29:10,625 --> 01:29:14,165

Paul Thomas Anderson is somebody who

just really did, did he, didn't he direct

 

1988

01:29:14,165 --> 01:29:16,175

Magnolia as well, or am I imagining that?

 

1989

01:29:16,175 --> 01:29:16,185

Yeah.

 

1990

01:29:16,370 --> 01:29:16,660

Okay.

 

1991

01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:16,960

He, he did.

 

1992

01:29:17,570 --> 01:29:17,860

Yeah.

 

1993

01:29:17,865 --> 01:29:18,035

Yeah.

 

1994

01:29:18,155 --> 01:29:20,795

I was supposed to play

two parts in Magnolia.

 

1995

01:29:21,605 --> 01:29:26,165

Um, I played one as the,

uh, game show host dressed.

 

1996

01:29:26,165 --> 01:29:29,945

They put a bunch of

prosthetics on me to be older.

 

1997

01:29:30,215 --> 01:29:36,545

And then, um, I was supposed to

play another small role in a,

 

1998

01:29:36,695 --> 01:29:41,015

in a, i, I was like at a craps

table or something, or gambling.

 

1999

01:29:41,585 --> 01:29:46,085

Then I got a chance to work with,

um, gene Hackman and Morgan Freeman

 

2000

01:29:46,085 --> 01:29:47,795

on a little movie in Puerto Rico.

 

2001

01:29:48,140 --> 01:29:53,780

So I had to take that, I had to jump

onto that, uh, that, and have that just

 

2002

01:29:53,780 --> 01:29:56,060

as an actor to work with those two guys.

 

2003

01:29:56,060 --> 01:30:00,080

I knew I was gonna learn a hell of a

lot just watching those guys of things.

 

2004

01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:00,500

And I did.

 

2005

01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:04,100

That's you've had an opportunity to

really have a nice constellation of

 

2006

01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,860

different, very notable folks that Yeah.

 

2007

01:30:06,860 --> 01:30:10,490

You know, you've had a chance to be, uh,

you know, when you make decisions on what

 

2008

01:30:10,490 --> 01:30:12,755

projects to take, is it, is it, mm-hmm.

 

2009

01:30:13,070 --> 01:30:16,100

Do you, do you look at that, go,

okay, who's working on this thing?

 

2010

01:30:16,190 --> 01:30:17,660

I, you know, I wanna work with them.

 

2011

01:30:17,660 --> 01:30:21,290

Is that a factor ever, or, oh, absolutely.

 

2012

01:30:21,290 --> 01:30:23,120

That's a big factor.

 

2013

01:30:23,330 --> 01:30:27,440

Who you're working with, uh, who's

directing the thing and who the,

 

2014

01:30:27,470 --> 01:30:31,760

who are the actors you get a chance

to work with, which I've been lucky

 

2015

01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:33,150

and, you know, worked with, uh.

 

2016

01:30:33,905 --> 01:30:39,515

Some of the greats and I've got to bounce

around, you know, uh, I'm a character

 

2017

01:30:39,515 --> 01:30:44,285

actor really, and, uh, you know, I've got,

I feel like I've gotten the opportunity

 

2018

01:30:44,285 --> 01:30:50,615

to play a lot of leading roles, which

is great, but at heart I'm a character

 

2019

01:30:50,615 --> 01:30:54,665

actor and, uh, I can, you know, I'm not

the kind of guy that you just kind of

 

2020

01:30:54,665 --> 01:31:01,415

know who he is From the poster I, I've,

I've, I can kind of blend into different

 

2021

01:31:01,415 --> 01:31:04,235

characters and I've always enjoyed that.

 

2022

01:31:04,445 --> 01:31:05,945

You know, that's from the very beginning.

 

2023

01:31:05,975 --> 01:31:08,855

That's one of the things I love when

I, when I talk to folks, I always.

 

2024

01:31:09,365 --> 01:31:13,295

Uh, really enjoy the folks that are

always working and they're always,

 

2025

01:31:13,295 --> 01:31:15,095

you know, you're just glad to

see 'em when they show up because

 

2026

01:31:15,095 --> 01:31:16,265

something's gonna be kind of cool.

 

2027

01:31:16,295 --> 01:31:19,745

And I, like, I was, uh, talking to

my son, I was talking, be talking

 

2028

01:31:19,745 --> 01:31:22,475

to Thomas Jane and he is like, oh

yeah, he's guy from The Expanse.

 

2029

01:31:22,475 --> 01:31:22,655

Right.

 

2030

01:31:22,655 --> 01:31:25,895

They're like the expanses, my son

and I, that's our show, you know?

 

2031

01:31:25,895 --> 01:31:27,305

And that was Oh, great.

 

2032

01:31:27,455 --> 01:31:29,945

I you're, you actually

talked to show Ray Alu.

 

2033

01:31:29,945 --> 01:31:33,605

You're the second Expanse chat

I've had and, uh, ah, she's great.

 

2034

01:31:34,175 --> 01:31:34,295

Yeah.

 

2035

01:31:34,355 --> 01:31:34,745

Terrific.

 

2036

01:31:34,745 --> 01:31:37,085

She's kind of a unique badass,

just, she's just so cool.

 

2037

01:31:37,205 --> 01:31:37,775

She sure is.

 

2038

01:31:37,805 --> 01:31:42,365

Um, but you, one of a kind, you know,

for those who have not seen the expanse,

 

2039

01:31:42,365 --> 01:31:47,045

little spoiler may be coming, but the,

I wanna know, when they came to you

 

2040

01:31:47,675 --> 01:31:51,545

or when the project came to you, did

you understand what it was gonna be?

 

2041

01:31:51,545 --> 01:31:53,495

Or did you 'cause it, it's, it's a little.

 

2042

01:31:54,185 --> 01:31:56,855

You know, I don't wanna give too much

away for those who still haven't seen

 

2043

01:31:56,855 --> 01:32:00,425

it, you know, but you're, you're, you're

there, but you're not there, you know?

 

2044

01:32:00,485 --> 01:32:04,655

Was it easy to kind of see where it was

going or was it kind of that They're

 

2045

01:32:04,655 --> 01:32:10,895

based on a series of wonderful books

and, uh, so we followed the story of

 

2046

01:32:10,895 --> 01:32:14,045

the books fairly, uh, religiously.

 

2047

01:32:15,065 --> 01:32:17,705

You know, we have to

turn it into television.

 

2048

01:32:17,705 --> 01:32:25,775

But, uh, we had a terrific crew of

writers and wonderful producers, and

 

2049

01:32:25,805 --> 01:32:29,615

we knew from the beginning that we

wanted to make something special.

 

2050

01:32:29,705 --> 01:32:36,815

We just happened to catch the sci-fi

channel at a period where they felt like

 

2051

01:32:36,815 --> 01:32:40,715

they needed to do more premier stuff.

 

2052

01:32:40,745 --> 01:32:41,285

Pristine.

 

2053

01:32:41,435 --> 01:32:44,225

In other words, they wanted to

spend some money on a show, right?

 

2054

01:32:44,435 --> 01:32:47,435

'cause they wanted to

elevate their channel.

 

2055

01:32:48,515 --> 01:32:49,985

So we happened to get the money.

 

2056

01:32:50,555 --> 01:32:54,065

My agents told me not to do it

because it's the sci-fi channel.

 

2057

01:32:54,845 --> 01:32:58,715

Um, but I believed in the crew.

 

2058

01:32:58,775 --> 01:33:04,505

I believed in the group, you know, uh,

Marc Fergus and Hawk Osby, um, who wrote

 

2059

01:33:04,505 --> 01:33:09,845

Children of Men, uh, iron Man, you know,

and, and a lot of other great stuff.

 

2060

01:33:09,935 --> 01:33:15,935

Um, I thought, and the books

were terrific and I love a film

 

2061

01:33:15,935 --> 01:33:19,355

noir and b. Science fiction.

 

2062

01:33:19,445 --> 01:33:19,595

Mm-hmm.

 

2063

01:33:19,955 --> 01:33:27,030

So to be able to combine the two was,

um, a real dream for me to even jump.

 

2064

01:33:27,030 --> 01:33:30,005

Even your, your character was a little

bit of a throwback in, in, in a way.

 

2065

01:33:30,005 --> 01:33:34,205

It seems like you, there was a

little, uh, to the old detective

 

2066

01:33:34,205 --> 01:33:35,735

vibe, you know, from back in the day.

 

2067

01:33:35,735 --> 01:33:37,685

It seems like you were kind

of like embracing a little,

 

2068

01:33:37,685 --> 01:33:38,705

like you said, the film noir.

 

2069

01:33:38,705 --> 01:33:41,855

I kind of felt that, but I mean, it

was like you were the one through line.

 

2070

01:33:41,915 --> 01:33:42,005

Mm-hmm.

 

2071

01:33:42,010 --> 01:33:44,285

I mean, I am geeking out a little

bit on The Expanse thing 'cause it is

 

2072

01:33:44,285 --> 01:33:47,585

one show that I just, one of the few

shows I'm like, please have a sequel.

 

2073

01:33:47,585 --> 01:33:51,365

You know, or, or a right to make

that happen to be just monumental.

 

2074

01:33:51,365 --> 01:33:55,055

I know, but, um, but you were kind

of the through line, you were sort

 

2075

01:33:55,055 --> 01:33:58,025

of, there was almost like a narrative

nature, like when you showed up,

 

2076

01:33:58,025 --> 01:33:59,915

you were connecting to mm-hmm.

 

2077

01:33:59,945 --> 01:34:03,185

Your roots were all over the every stage.

 

2078

01:34:03,185 --> 01:34:07,385

You know, they collide, they're two

different worlds and they eventually

 

2079

01:34:07,385 --> 01:34:09,905

collide and then merge into one.

 

2080

01:34:10,655 --> 01:34:12,665

Um, I think the books are.

 

2081

01:34:12,845 --> 01:34:17,345

You cut above, you know, if anybody's

into reading sci-fi, I mean, you

 

2082

01:34:17,345 --> 01:34:18,725

haven't checked out The Expanse.

 

2083

01:34:18,725 --> 01:34:19,685

You definitely should.

 

2084

01:34:20,165 --> 01:34:21,545

Especially the first three.

 

2085

01:34:22,295 --> 01:34:22,445

Yeah.

 

2086

01:34:22,445 --> 01:34:26,495

I think the air apparent to that

vibe is the, uh, on the Apple tv.

 

2087

01:34:26,495 --> 01:34:29,645

The uh, uh, uh, foundation, I

think kind of, kind of captures a

 

2088

01:34:29,645 --> 01:34:31,170

little bit of that kind of mm-hmm.

 

2089

01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:32,285

Out, you know?

 

2090

01:34:32,735 --> 01:34:32,915

Yeah.

 

2091

01:34:32,915 --> 01:34:34,775

I told my son, I was like, yeah,

I'm look really looking forward.

 

2092

01:34:34,775 --> 01:34:36,395

I gotta ask him some expanse questions.

 

2093

01:34:36,395 --> 01:34:38,285

So I gotta say, that was cool.

 

2094

01:34:38,285 --> 01:34:41,435

I loved your character and the,

and the, the, I wanted to keep

 

2095

01:34:41,435 --> 01:34:43,265

the hat, by the way, the, the hat.

 

2096

01:34:43,565 --> 01:34:45,010

I do have the hat.

 

2097

01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:45,490

Yes.

 

2098

01:34:45,755 --> 01:34:46,925

I did take that home.

 

2099

01:34:46,925 --> 01:34:48,365

I took the hat tonight.

 

2100

01:34:48,365 --> 01:34:51,335

Got a, I got a, a gun

around here too, somewhere.

 

2101

01:34:51,605 --> 01:34:54,185

I always wonder, do you

keep stuff from films?

 

2102

01:34:54,245 --> 01:34:56,705

Uh, is that like there's

a piece of wardrobe?

 

2103

01:34:56,705 --> 01:34:59,135

I mean, do you, do you, do you battle

the people in the wardrobe department

 

2104

01:34:59,135 --> 01:34:59,945

going, I really want this stuff.

 

2105

01:34:59,950 --> 01:34:59,970

Yeah.

 

2106

01:34:59,970 --> 01:35:03,635

From the, from the ones that you

know, mean something and I feel like

 

2107

01:35:03,635 --> 01:35:07,605

we, uh, did a great job then, uh,

I always take something that, of

 

2108

01:35:07,865 --> 01:35:09,605

the character, you know, usually.

 

2109

01:35:10,235 --> 01:35:13,295

Prop, um, with the expense.

 

2110

01:35:13,295 --> 01:35:16,355

It definitely had to have that and

they were happy to give it to me.

 

2111

01:35:16,535 --> 01:35:21,575

And, uh, you know, other shows, like,

uh, when I played Mickey Mantle in

 

2112

01:35:21,575 --> 01:35:27,635

61, I've got my jersey, um, for that,

I got a couple of things from The

 

2113

01:35:27,635 --> 01:35:30,845

Punisher, you know, Mickey Mantle,

I grew up in Dallas, and he was, you

 

2114

01:35:30,845 --> 01:35:34,505

know, there he was, he, he, he liked

the drink from what I understand.

 

2115

01:35:34,505 --> 01:35:37,895

So he would occasion my father would run

into him in different establishments.

 

2116

01:35:37,895 --> 01:35:43,055

And so I have this box and I have a

number of Mickey Mantle autographs,

 

2117

01:35:43,055 --> 01:35:45,435

you know, bar napkins, things,

you know, made out to me, right.

 

2118

01:35:45,435 --> 01:35:47,225

I'm sitting there going,

and you just reminded me.

 

2119

01:35:47,225 --> 01:35:49,685

I ne I want to go to a framing

place, get a picture of, you

 

2120

01:35:49,685 --> 01:35:51,125

know, do kind of a cool frame.

 

2121

01:35:51,125 --> 01:35:52,925

'cause I have all these Mickey Mantle.

 

2122

01:35:53,300 --> 01:35:53,990

Oh, autographs.

 

2123

01:35:54,050 --> 01:35:54,920

Yeah, you gotta do that.

 

2124

01:35:54,980 --> 01:35:56,420

And he had such a unique,

uh, that's terrific.

 

2125

01:35:56,510 --> 01:35:59,270

You know, it's kind of funny 'cause with

my signature, I didn't realize Right.

 

2126

01:35:59,270 --> 01:36:02,330

To make our s similarly, I don't know,

it's just kind of a weird, you know,

 

2127

01:36:02,570 --> 01:36:08,120

years after he was a ball player, him

and, uh, him and his two sons would sit

 

2128

01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:13,040

around a dining room table with a big

box of baseballs and they would, um,

 

2129

01:36:13,220 --> 01:36:18,800

all three of them sign the Mickey Mantle

signature and dump 'em into another box.

 

2130

01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:19,520

Yeah.

 

2131

01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:24,680

And then at every ball that went in,

there'd be like 20 bucks, 20 bucks, 20

 

2132

01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:29,810

bucks, and they'd fill up a cardboard box

full of, uh, Mickey Mantle, uh, baseball.

 

2133

01:36:29,810 --> 01:36:34,790

So when you're, you know, buying a

Mickey Mantle baseball and apparently

 

2134

01:36:34,790 --> 01:36:38,570

the experts can tell the difference,

God, I saw that a movie not long ago.

 

2135

01:36:38,570 --> 01:36:41,270

Funny is like an athlete's kind

of on the, uh, back end of their

 

2136

01:36:41,270 --> 01:36:43,610

career and that's kind of how

they're, you know, making the money.

 

2137

01:36:43,610 --> 01:36:46,970

But what was it, you know, is that

for you playing someone, because

 

2138

01:36:46,970 --> 01:36:50,720

you said character act, you're

used to really morphing and doing

 

2139

01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:52,070

a reMarcably good job of it.

 

2140

01:36:52,145 --> 01:36:55,955

But here you are playing a real dude

who had a real life and people know him.

 

2141

01:36:56,405 --> 01:36:58,775

What was it like, you're playing,

you know, Mickey Mantle was it,

 

2142

01:36:58,775 --> 01:37:02,195

was there like, are you gonna go

and do the research and, you know,

 

2143

01:37:02,195 --> 01:37:04,145

talk to the people who knew him?

 

2144

01:37:04,145 --> 01:37:06,365

I mean, how did you get that,

uh, how did you prepare for that?

 

2145

01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:06,710

Absolutely.

 

2146

01:37:06,715 --> 01:37:11,705

You do everyth everything and anything

you possibly can to as learn as much as

 

2147

01:37:11,735 --> 01:37:17,375

you possibly can in the time that you

have, uh, before you, uh, start shooting,

 

2148

01:37:17,375 --> 01:37:18,635

when you're building the character.

 

2149

01:37:18,665 --> 01:37:23,705

And the thing that helped me the most

was working with Reggie Smith, who was a

 

2150

01:37:23,705 --> 01:37:25,715

number two switch hitter behind mantle.

 

2151

01:37:26,405 --> 01:37:32,945

Um, a a great baseball player

and, uh, and a truly great coach.

 

2152

01:37:32,975 --> 01:37:35,315

You know, he, he's coach,

he coaches, and he's.

 

2153

01:37:35,690 --> 01:37:38,810

Coached for years, I'm

sure he is still at it.

 

2154

01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:43,760

Um, and he taught me how to swing like

mantle from both sides of the plate,

 

2155

01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:49,430

you know, and I was out there every

day and it was some of the best times

 

2156

01:37:49,430 --> 01:37:51,500

of my life learning how to play ball.

 

2157

01:37:51,500 --> 01:37:51,620

Mm-hmm.

 

2158

01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:54,950

And then, um, shooting

the movie, playing mantle.

 

2159

01:37:55,520 --> 01:38:01,850

That was a particularly, um, I have fond

memories of, uh, of all that and very

 

2160

01:38:01,850 --> 01:38:03,380

proud of the way the movie turned out.

 

2161

01:38:03,380 --> 01:38:07,400

We got inducted into the

baseball Hall of Fame 61 did.

 

2162

01:38:07,850 --> 01:38:08,330

Really?

 

2163

01:38:08,330 --> 01:38:08,990

I didn't know that.

 

2164

01:38:09,830 --> 01:38:09,950

Yeah.

 

2165

01:38:09,950 --> 01:38:13,700

We went to Cooperstown and

had the ceremony with Billy.

 

2166

01:38:13,700 --> 01:38:15,020

It was, it was really fun.

 

2167

01:38:15,290 --> 01:38:16,250

You know, it's so funny.

 

2168

01:38:16,310 --> 01:38:19,220

Uh, I had, uh, this is one

of my favorite stories.

 

2169

01:38:19,220 --> 01:38:23,540

I do a lot of voiceover in half for

many years, and I, uh, the, the back

 

2170

01:38:23,540 --> 01:38:26,570

in 2003, they reached out to me.

 

2171

01:38:26,570 --> 01:38:28,970

There's a producer who's doing this

big project for the Hall of Fame.

 

2172

01:38:28,970 --> 01:38:30,230

He said, we want you to narrate it.

 

2173

01:38:30,575 --> 01:38:34,115

The Hall of Fame wants James Earl

Jones because they're doing some kind

 

2174

01:38:34,115 --> 01:38:35,315

of induction because of the movies.

 

2175

01:38:35,315 --> 01:38:37,205

And they, they thought of, you

know, he said, I just don't think

 

2176

01:38:37,205 --> 01:38:38,525

James Earl Jones is right for this.

 

2177

01:38:38,525 --> 01:38:40,385

He's like, are you choosing

me over Darth Vader?

 

2178

01:38:40,475 --> 01:38:40,805

Really?

 

2179

01:38:40,805 --> 01:38:41,490

It's like, yeah.

 

2180

01:38:41,930 --> 01:38:43,955

I was like, that is, that is so trippy.

 

2181

01:38:43,955 --> 01:38:46,925

And then my grandfather, who was,

who's not in good, uh, he wasn't

 

2182

01:38:46,925 --> 01:38:49,565

in good health and he didn't really

understand exactly what I did.

 

2183

01:38:49,565 --> 01:38:52,895

And I flew back to Dallas and I

got my laptop and I got the video.

 

2184

01:38:52,895 --> 01:38:56,435

That producer sent me the video

and he is like, oh, now I, okay,

 

2185

01:38:56,435 --> 01:38:57,725

now he kinda gets it, you know?

 

2186

01:38:58,595 --> 01:39:00,335

I say, Hey, your grandson's

in the Hall of Fame.

 

2187

01:39:00,910 --> 01:39:04,330

I went in the most weird way possible,

but I've always wanted to go and I

 

2188

01:39:04,330 --> 01:39:05,830

wanted to go see the project that we did.

 

2189

01:39:05,830 --> 01:39:09,400

And I just really, I'm, yeah,

I'm a big, I'm a big baseball

 

2190

01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:10,630

nerd of the, of the history.

 

2191

01:39:10,630 --> 01:39:11,020

Big Mel.

 

2192

01:39:11,230 --> 01:39:11,710

Big Nolan.

 

2193

01:39:11,710 --> 01:39:11,800

Right.

 

2194

01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:11,830

Okay.

 

2195

01:39:11,830 --> 01:39:13,030

Well, you would love it.

 

2196

01:39:13,030 --> 01:39:14,800

Cooperstown is beautiful.

 

2197

01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:19,660

It's just like a throwback

1950s little town in New York.

 

2198

01:39:19,660 --> 01:39:20,710

It's so cool.

 

2199

01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:22,930

Now, were you a sporting kid growing up?

 

2200

01:39:22,930 --> 01:39:26,200

Were you doing the, uh, athletic

thing or were you I played football.

 

2201

01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:30,610

We didn't have any baseball,

which is, um, depressing because.

 

2202

01:39:31,085 --> 01:39:33,635

And I was, I was being coached by Reggie.

 

2203

01:39:33,635 --> 01:39:37,715

He, he told me one day toward the end,

he said, you know, if your dad had

 

2204

01:39:37,715 --> 01:39:41,225

started you when you were four years

old, the way all these ball players,

 

2205

01:39:41,225 --> 01:39:42,485

he goes, you could have had a shot.

 

2206

01:39:42,725 --> 01:39:43,055

Really?

 

2207

01:39:43,055 --> 01:39:45,185

You've got that thing that I can't teach.

 

2208

01:39:45,275 --> 01:39:47,105

And that, uh, that meant a lot to me.

 

2209

01:39:47,105 --> 01:39:48,305

What were you playing in football?

 

2210

01:39:48,305 --> 01:39:49,895

What was, what was your position?

 

2211

01:39:50,105 --> 01:39:53,945

I was like a tight end and a de

and a defensive end, you know?

 

2212

01:39:54,335 --> 01:39:54,485

Yeah.

 

2213

01:39:54,485 --> 01:39:57,875

I was, and it wasn't fast enough and,

you know, it was high school football.

 

2214

01:39:57,880 --> 01:39:58,050

Yeah.

 

2215

01:39:58,050 --> 01:39:59,135

I, I was kinda the same way.

 

2216

01:39:59,135 --> 01:40:01,835

I got to that point where I hurt my

knee and the doctor was like, is so

 

2217

01:40:01,835 --> 01:40:04,715

we do this, a lateral release, little,

little tiny orthoscopic procedure

 

2218

01:40:04,715 --> 01:40:05,555

in your back playing football.

 

2219

01:40:05,555 --> 01:40:06,755

I'm like, listen, I'm not that good.

 

2220

01:40:07,115 --> 01:40:10,805

You know, I'm actually B team at

best, you know, and, uh, you know,

 

2221

01:40:10,805 --> 01:40:14,225

this is, and everybody's become way

faster than me, so this is not funny.

 

2222

01:40:14,285 --> 01:40:18,275

Um, yeah, I almost broke my

neck on playing football.

 

2223

01:40:18,290 --> 01:40:22,805

I was like in, in bed for like two weeks

'cause I've really messed my neck up.

 

2224

01:40:22,985 --> 01:40:25,985

Uh, you know, and during a play,

they, it was one of those things

 

2225

01:40:25,985 --> 01:40:29,735

where I, they had to bring in the

stretcher and pull me out and all that.

 

2226

01:40:30,025 --> 01:40:34,225

Yeah, it was horrible when they

put me on all these terrible muscle

 

2227

01:40:34,225 --> 01:40:37,465

relaxants and it just was awful.

 

2228

01:40:37,615 --> 01:40:40,105

It was, the whole thing was, uh, bad.

 

2229

01:40:40,825 --> 01:40:42,265

And this is back when

you were in high school?

 

2230

01:40:42,535 --> 01:40:42,955

Yeah.

 

2231

01:40:42,955 --> 01:40:44,215

Playing high school football.

 

2232

01:40:44,215 --> 01:40:47,785

And we played for keeps, we were,

we were scrappy kids, you know,

 

2233

01:40:47,815 --> 01:40:51,625

people were always getting our, you

know, we, this is back in the day,

 

2234

01:40:51,625 --> 01:40:53,395

this is, you know, in the eighties.

 

2235

01:40:53,515 --> 01:40:53,605

Mm-hmm.

 

2236

01:40:53,850 --> 01:40:57,535

You could, you know, when

people, people played football.

 

2237

01:40:57,540 --> 01:40:58,525

I mean, it was tough.

 

2238

01:40:58,585 --> 01:40:58,705

Oh yeah.

 

2239

01:40:58,705 --> 01:41:03,355

We were playing teams that were,

you know, from, they were, um, you

 

2240

01:41:03,355 --> 01:41:06,185

know, eating cows for breakfast

and, you know, they came from the.

 

2241

01:41:06,410 --> 01:41:08,720

It came from out in the farmland.

 

2242

01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:11,570

I mean, we were playing some

really mean looking teams.

 

2243

01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:12,560

It was amazing.

 

2244

01:41:12,770 --> 01:41:15,920

You know, so did that kind of, as

high school boys get huge, see?

 

2245

01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:16,700

Oh yeah, yeah.

 

2246

01:41:16,700 --> 01:41:19,010

That, that, that, that was

kind of the thing I was seeing.

 

2247

01:41:19,010 --> 01:41:21,560

I was going, yeah, I'm not, I'm not

gonna be able to compete against this.

 

2248

01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:23,330

This is not my, this is not my zone.

 

2249

01:41:23,750 --> 01:41:26,960

Uh, but was that, that kind of

precipitate the, the move into

 

2250

01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:28,580

the theatrical side of things?

 

2251

01:41:28,580 --> 01:41:32,120

Were you doing the theater in high

school or was it just kinda a Yeah, I was

 

2252

01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:34,160

also messing around with the art kids.

 

2253

01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:36,020

And I love, I love the art kids.

 

2254

01:41:36,020 --> 01:41:37,340

You know, I was an outsider.

 

2255

01:41:37,340 --> 01:41:38,780

I've always been an outsider.

 

2256

01:41:38,780 --> 01:41:41,090

I got put into school late.

 

2257

01:41:41,450 --> 01:41:47,660

Um, so I was sort of a, the stranger, you

know, we moved to a new town, I was eight.

 

2258

01:41:47,660 --> 01:41:53,570

And I, I just have never fit in

with, uh, with people, which is,

 

2259

01:41:53,570 --> 01:41:56,000

you know, depressing at times.

 

2260

01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:58,380

But I'm also okay with it.

 

2261

01:41:59,150 --> 01:42:04,820

I, I'm just terrible in a crowd or at a

party or, you know, thi things like that.

 

2262

01:42:04,910 --> 01:42:07,850

And it hasn't really gotten any

better as I've gotten older.

 

2263

01:42:07,850 --> 01:42:11,330

It's just, I'm just not,

I'm just an outsider.

 

2264

01:42:11,390 --> 01:42:16,190

And, uh, and the advantage of being an

outsider is that you become an observer.

 

2265

01:42:16,820 --> 01:42:17,150

Mm-hmm.

 

2266

01:42:17,630 --> 01:42:22,580

Um, not participating in the,

uh, insanity that humans do.

 

2267

01:42:22,580 --> 01:42:26,390

I mean, I'd, I'd love to, it, it sounds,

it looks great, you know, everybody's

 

2268

01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:32,540

laughing and being stupid and, uh, and,

and nobody can remember what the hell

 

2269

01:42:32,540 --> 01:42:34,430

they were talking about the next day.

 

2270

01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:41,215

Um, but, uh, I'm, I've just, it

made me an ob an observer of, uh.

 

2271

01:42:42,200 --> 01:42:45,860

Human nature, uh, and society.

 

2272

01:42:46,100 --> 01:42:51,320

And, uh, it gets me thinking

about that, that kind of thing.

 

2273

01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:55,820

I spend an awful long, too much

time contemplating the future of

 

2274

01:42:55,820 --> 01:42:57,950

human society where we're going.

 

2275

01:42:58,160 --> 01:43:04,880

Can we, what would it take to sort of

transform us into a sustainable, um,

 

2276

01:43:04,940 --> 01:43:09,110

coherent society with an actual, um.

 

2277

01:43:09,695 --> 01:43:12,875

Common purpose, you

know, things like that.

 

2278

01:43:13,505 --> 01:43:15,605

I feel you 110% on that.

 

2279

01:43:15,605 --> 01:43:15,755

Yeah.

 

2280

01:43:15,755 --> 01:43:19,475

In fact, you know, doing what you do,

I, I identify you have to almost be a

 

2281

01:43:19,475 --> 01:43:23,135

little bit of a extroverted introvert

because you'd have to find yourself

 

2282

01:43:23,135 --> 01:43:26,015

in different situations, but you have

to have that recharge moment with you.

 

2283

01:43:26,020 --> 01:43:26,560

It's been tough.

 

2284

01:43:26,780 --> 01:43:27,935

That's been tough.

 

2285

01:43:27,995 --> 01:43:28,325

Yeah.

 

2286

01:43:28,355 --> 01:43:32,285

That's probably the hardest thing

for me is, um, you know, is the,

 

2287

01:43:32,285 --> 01:43:34,805

uh, the people aspect of it all.

 

2288

01:43:35,315 --> 01:43:38,945

I, I could probably make great

movies with AI on my computer,

 

2289

01:43:40,835 --> 01:43:44,705

um, but no, as an actor, you have

to perform in front of people.

 

2290

01:43:44,765 --> 01:43:47,765

Uh, I, I, I took a lot of training for me.

 

2291

01:43:47,765 --> 01:43:51,995

You know, I knew that I needed a lot of

actors that you've, they have natural

 

2292

01:43:51,995 --> 01:43:57,335

talent and they can, like my daughter,

she, she's trained, she's gone to school.

 

2293

01:43:57,425 --> 01:44:01,955

Um, but she is natural talent and she

can get up in front of people and.

 

2294

01:44:02,480 --> 01:44:03,230

Do her thing.

 

2295

01:44:03,830 --> 01:44:08,210

But I had to go to school for a long

time to just learn how to stand up on

 

2296

01:44:08,210 --> 01:44:10,820

stage in front of other human beings.

 

2297

01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:13,940

Now was all your training in Los

Angeles or were you, did you kick

 

2298

01:44:13,940 --> 01:44:15,380

it off, uh, back in Maryland?

 

2299

01:44:15,710 --> 01:44:16,010

Yeah.

 

2300

01:44:16,010 --> 01:44:19,070

Well, I was in the high

school, uh, theater department.

 

2301

01:44:19,070 --> 01:44:20,510

That was my first play.

 

2302

01:44:20,810 --> 01:44:25,940

I was actually building the sets, um,

for the high school play, because that's

 

2303

01:44:25,940 --> 01:44:27,980

what the art kids did, the art nerds.

 

2304

01:44:28,310 --> 01:44:32,480

We, we painted the sets and built

them, and it was so much fun.

 

2305

01:44:32,480 --> 01:44:37,400

It was, you know, after school it gave,

we had a great group of nerdy kids.

 

2306

01:44:38,030 --> 01:44:42,950

Um, and, but then I was always cutting

up and playing practical jokes and

 

2307

01:44:42,950 --> 01:44:49,370

stuff, and so they, they, um, we, we

cocked this, we hatched this plan to, uh.

 

2308

01:44:50,705 --> 01:44:53,825

Destroy the set in the middle of the show.

 

2309

01:44:53,825 --> 01:44:57,665

We were gonna sort of rope attach

it to, to ropes and pull the whole

 

2310

01:44:57,665 --> 01:44:59,135

set down in the middle of the show.

 

2311

01:44:59,135 --> 01:45:03,065

We thought it would be hilarious,

but we needed an inside man.

 

2312

01:45:03,065 --> 01:45:09,215

We needed a guy on stage to, to affect

this elaborate plan that we cooked up.

 

2313

01:45:09,755 --> 01:45:11,315

So that was gonna be me.

 

2314

01:45:11,345 --> 01:45:15,395

So I was like, you need to go and

audition and get a part in that play

 

2315

01:45:15,905 --> 01:45:18,245

and then we'll have our inside man.

 

2316

01:45:18,245 --> 01:45:23,465

And so I did and I got a part in

the play, which probably wasn't

 

2317

01:45:23,465 --> 01:45:25,245

too difficult, but, but, uh.

 

2318

01:45:26,180 --> 01:45:30,290

So as I rehearsed this thing,

it was a vaudeville sketch.

 

2319

01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:36,230

We, it was a night of old time vaudeville

sketches that our wonderful, uh, Mr.

 

2320

01:45:36,230 --> 01:45:41,570

Brodsky, our drama department

and English teacher put together.

 

2321

01:45:41,900 --> 01:45:45,770

And we got to learn all of these

fantastic old vaudeville acts.

 

2322

01:45:46,310 --> 01:45:50,030

And the one that I, uh, learned

was called Niagara Falls, which

 

2323

01:45:50,030 --> 01:45:51,680

is a brilliant little skit.

 

2324

01:45:52,430 --> 01:45:56,480

And it, it was a very famous vaudeville

act that people did all over the country

 

2325

01:45:56,480 --> 01:45:58,820

and all little theaters and big theaters.

 

2326

01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:02,750

Um, I, uh.

 

2327

01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:04,640

Was it Laurel and Hardy?

 

2328

01:46:04,910 --> 01:46:06,830

So a couple of famous guys did it.

 

2329

01:46:07,460 --> 01:46:12,950

Um, anyway, so that was my thing, and

as I, you know, was rehearsing this

 

2330

01:46:12,950 --> 01:46:15,200

thing, I just got more and more into it.

 

2331

01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:17,870

And by the time opening night

came, I said, you know what fellas?

 

2332

01:46:17,870 --> 01:46:20,330

This whole like, poll and the

set down thing that's off.

 

2333

01:46:20,450 --> 01:46:23,990

Yeah, I was about to say, I a feeling

once you kind of get into it, once you

 

2334

01:46:23,990 --> 01:46:27,605

start like, you know, uh, becoming a

part of it, I wanna do this, I wanna do

 

2335

01:46:27,605 --> 01:46:29,630

this, uh, this scene in front of people.

 

2336

01:46:30,080 --> 01:46:30,890

And we did.

 

2337

01:46:30,890 --> 01:46:33,920

And uh, and I just had such a great time.

 

2338

01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:39,380

I thought, okay, I, I know what, I know

what I wanna do with my life and um, and

 

2339

01:46:39,380 --> 01:46:41,240

now I don't need to go to school anymore.

 

2340

01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:41,360

Mm-hmm.

 

2341

01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:44,990

Because isn't cool to, to like train

you to do stuff with your life.

 

2342

01:46:44,990 --> 01:46:46,100

It's like, I got this covered.

 

2343

01:46:46,100 --> 01:46:47,270

So I dropped outta high school.

 

2344

01:46:54,380 --> 01:46:57,680

So you made that commitment to yourself,

like, this is the, this is my thing.

 

2345

01:46:57,770 --> 01:47:02,570

Dropped outta high school and,

uh, my mom found a, uh, an acting

 

2346

01:47:02,570 --> 01:47:04,640

class in Bethesda, Maryland.

 

2347

01:47:04,820 --> 01:47:08,300

And so I started taking the

train down to Bethesda every day.

 

2348

01:47:08,300 --> 01:47:12,110

And with these adults, I was the youngest

kid in the class, but it was a full-time

 

2349

01:47:12,110 --> 01:47:14,450

class, you know, it was five days a week.

 

2350

01:47:14,450 --> 01:47:17,450

And so your folks embraced

your, uh, your new founder?

 

2351

01:47:17,750 --> 01:47:19,340

No, they absolutely hated it.

 

2352

01:47:19,340 --> 01:47:22,400

They thought I'd gone insane,

but I refused to go to school.

 

2353

01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:23,330

So what are they gonna do?

 

2354

01:47:24,065 --> 01:47:26,945

I was 16, 15, I think I was 15.

 

2355

01:47:26,945 --> 01:47:28,685

Yeah, really, I, I had the same thing.

 

2356

01:47:28,685 --> 01:47:31,865

I knew I wanted to do, like, work

in radio and I'd started when I was

 

2357

01:47:31,865 --> 01:47:35,105

in high school, uh, working, you

know, doing pretty okay actually.

 

2358

01:47:35,165 --> 01:47:37,355

And I went to college going,

what, what am I doing here?

 

2359

01:47:37,355 --> 01:47:40,025

Because I already am doing the

thing I want to do, you know?

 

2360

01:47:40,355 --> 01:47:42,665

So I understand that restless

thing when you're doing, you

 

2361

01:47:42,725 --> 01:47:43,625

know, what you want to do.

 

2362

01:47:43,625 --> 01:47:46,145

And look, if you know

what you wanna do, do it.

 

2363

01:47:46,535 --> 01:47:47,045

Okay?

 

2364

01:47:47,045 --> 01:47:50,105

And school is only going

to turn you into a monkey.

 

2365

01:47:50,885 --> 01:47:55,205

Don't un unless you're really into

being a doctor or a physicist,

 

2366

01:47:55,235 --> 01:48:00,005

or a mathematician or something

that requires serious training.

 

2367

01:48:00,875 --> 01:48:06,575

Um, then school is great and find the

best people and, and soak it up, you know?

 

2368

01:48:07,085 --> 01:48:13,835

But if you got some other ideas, if that's

not where your talent lies, then um.

 

2369

01:48:14,255 --> 01:48:18,305

School is meant to create

workers out of people.

 

2370

01:48:18,365 --> 01:48:23,165

And this is an open letter from the

Rockefeller, uh, himself, uh, to

 

2371

01:48:23,165 --> 01:48:27,785

the president back in the back when

industrialization was just kicking in.

 

2372

01:48:27,785 --> 01:48:29,555

And it's right there in black and white.

 

2373

01:48:29,915 --> 01:48:31,175

You can read it on the internet.

 

2374

01:48:31,445 --> 01:48:33,755

We need a nation of workers.

 

2375

01:48:33,845 --> 01:48:33,965

Mm-hmm.

 

2376

01:48:34,325 --> 01:48:40,595

And he, he said, I suggest we adopt,

adopt the Prussian school system because

 

2377

01:48:40,595 --> 01:48:45,725

in Prussia they were having this horrible

problem where every few years there

 

2378

01:48:45,725 --> 01:48:47,885

would be a revolt and a revolution.

 

2379

01:48:48,335 --> 01:48:52,055

And they figured out that the older

kids were teaching the younger kids

 

2380

01:48:52,055 --> 01:48:53,705

what was wrong with the country.

 

2381

01:48:53,855 --> 01:48:56,795

So they then the, when the,

when the younger kids got old

 

2382

01:48:56,795 --> 01:48:58,055

enough, they would revolt.

 

2383

01:48:58,925 --> 01:49:03,875

So what they did was they

separated everybody by age.

 

2384

01:49:04,400 --> 01:49:09,440

And then they gave them a master who would

punish them, and they conditioned these

 

2385

01:49:09,440 --> 01:49:16,040

children to do meaningless work, uh, to

keep them occupied, uh, fill their brains

 

2386

01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:20,510

with a bunch of nonsense and separate

the older kids from the younger kids.

 

2387

01:49:20,540 --> 01:49:23,900

So the older kids couldn't teach

the younger kids what was going on.

 

2388

01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:25,010

And it worked.

 

2389

01:49:25,010 --> 01:49:27,380

Really, the revolutions stopped.

 

2390

01:49:27,380 --> 01:49:27,440

Huh?

 

2391

01:49:28,250 --> 01:49:28,460

So.

 

2392

01:49:29,270 --> 01:49:34,430

Rockefeller says, I suggest we adopt

this system and institute it all

 

2393

01:49:34,430 --> 01:49:36,920

around America because we need workers.

 

2394

01:49:37,190 --> 01:49:37,730

Period.

 

2395

01:49:37,820 --> 01:49:40,730

I mean, that's the story

folks, and it hasn't changed.

 

2396

01:49:41,030 --> 01:49:42,560

Well, what I found was very interesting.

 

2397

01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:44,840

I think we're kind of getting

a little bit away from it.

 

2398

01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:48,425

There is a period of time and uh,

you remember the movie, uh, uh,

 

2399

01:49:48,430 --> 01:49:52,280

uh, office Space came out that was

kind of like the pinnacle of that.

 

2400

01:49:52,280 --> 01:49:54,170

Like, we don't care what degree you have.

 

2401

01:49:54,175 --> 01:49:54,305

Great.

 

2402

01:49:54,305 --> 01:49:55,465

I think I auditioned for that.

 

2403

01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:58,370

I love that script and I really

wanted to be in it, but I'm

 

2404

01:49:58,370 --> 01:49:59,750

just, you know, it wasn't my bag.

 

2405

01:49:59,930 --> 01:50:00,140

Yeah.

 

2406

01:50:00,140 --> 01:50:00,500

Yeah.

 

2407

01:50:00,500 --> 01:50:00,800

Go ahead.

 

2408

01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:04,400

You know what, it was just like at a time

when, uh, you know, you need a degree.

 

2409

01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:05,810

They don't care what the degree is.

 

2410

01:50:05,810 --> 01:50:06,740

You just have to have it.

 

2411

01:50:06,740 --> 01:50:08,000

It's almost like, okay, well.

 

2412

01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:10,490

It's, things just aren't connecting.

 

2413

01:50:10,490 --> 01:50:14,300

So you kind of realize we're in a, a phase

now where some of the big tech companies,

 

2414

01:50:14,300 --> 01:50:17,840

some of the more savvy companies

going, well, you don't need a degree.

 

2415

01:50:17,900 --> 01:50:18,475

You know, we certainly don't.

 

2416

01:50:18,860 --> 01:50:23,120

And uh, you know, it's, of course

education has its place as we discussed,

 

2417

01:50:23,120 --> 01:50:26,185

but that's one of the things I'm, I'm

wondering really doesn't, well, I mean,

 

2418

01:50:26,185 --> 01:50:28,820

if you wanna be a doctor or something

like that, of course, but you know,

 

2419

01:50:28,820 --> 01:50:31,700

otherwise it's like, you know, the

amount of debt that's being accrued.

 

2420

01:50:31,700 --> 01:50:34,580

Luckily my kids, you know, they

had themselves a scholarship

 

2421

01:50:34,580 --> 01:50:35,840

'cause they're way smarter than me.

 

2422

01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:37,280

But, um Right.

 

2423

01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:40,370

But, uh, you know, I'm curious, when

did you make that, I mean, making

 

2424

01:50:40,370 --> 01:50:43,670

that move to LA when, how old were

you when you, uh, headed west?

 

2425

01:50:43,970 --> 01:50:48,560

I was, uh, 16, but now you got me

thinking about the debt situation.

 

2426

01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:49,580

So let me tell you about that.

 

2427

01:50:49,670 --> 01:50:49,730

So.

 

2428

01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:56,390

The 1960s were a period

of incredible revolution.

 

2429

01:50:56,390 --> 01:50:59,570

It was a, it was a

consciousness raising period.

 

2430

01:50:59,570 --> 01:51:03,260

People were learning, they were

breaking away from the establishment.

 

2431

01:51:03,290 --> 01:51:08,690

They called it that the establishment,

they grow their hair along and, uh,

 

2432

01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:13,220

they were getting together and they

were protesting and they knew that the

 

2433

01:51:13,220 --> 01:51:17,300

country was screwed up and they knew

everything that was wrong with it.

 

2434

01:51:17,750 --> 01:51:21,620

And the Vietnam War, of course, really

drove these kids 'cause they, it,

 

2435

01:51:21,770 --> 01:51:25,310

they knew, understood that it was a

meaningless war and they didn't feel like

 

2436

01:51:25,310 --> 01:51:27,320

running, being drafted, and going to die.

 

2437

01:51:27,320 --> 01:51:32,690

It, so the, the revolt, the revolution

that happened was the closest we've

 

2438

01:51:32,690 --> 01:51:35,000

come to a real social revolution.

 

2439

01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:35,210

Mm-hmm.

 

2440

01:51:35,845 --> 01:51:41,180

Government, the people who are in

power figured out these kids are

 

2441

01:51:41,180 --> 01:51:47,035

going to school for free college if

you bag groceries three days a week.

 

2442

01:51:47,885 --> 01:51:50,675

Then you have enough money to

put yourself through college.

 

2443

01:51:50,795 --> 01:51:51,095

Oh, you know?

 

2444

01:51:51,155 --> 01:51:51,365

Yeah.

 

2445

01:51:51,425 --> 01:51:52,535

Part-time job.

 

2446

01:51:52,565 --> 01:51:55,175

You know, five days a week

will put you through school.

 

2447

01:51:55,865 --> 01:51:59,405

Um, and they had all this time

on their hands to get together in

 

2448

01:51:59,405 --> 01:52:02,765

church basements and pro figure

out what was wrong and protest.

 

2449

01:52:02,765 --> 01:52:09,500

So I. S suddenly the tuitions started

going up and up and up putting these

 

2450

01:52:09,500 --> 01:52:15,530

kids in debt, making them get full-time

jobs and no longer have any time to,

 

2451

01:52:15,695 --> 01:52:20,660

to, to even to think or worry about

what's messed up about the country.

 

2452

01:52:21,200 --> 01:52:23,000

So that's, uh, that's how that happened.

 

2453

01:52:23,150 --> 01:52:28,670

You know, my kids, you know, 20, 22,

21, and 20, almost 20, and it's like,

 

2454

01:52:28,670 --> 01:52:32,060

I talked to 'em, it's like, you know

what are with AI and all that stuff.

 

2455

01:52:32,060 --> 01:52:35,090

I'm like, okay, is school more

important or is it less important?

 

2456

01:52:35,090 --> 01:52:38,300

It, it's really a weird time we're

in right now, but going back to

 

2457

01:52:38,300 --> 01:52:42,020

the sixties, everything was a

confluence of, you had music and

 

2458

01:52:42,020 --> 01:52:43,970

culture and everything was kind of.

 

2459

01:52:44,525 --> 01:52:48,095

Angling and like it was a disruptive,

and it was, you know, that makes sense.

 

2460

01:52:48,095 --> 01:52:52,445

It was a disruptor and we had to

install, uh, you know, guardrails to

 

2461

01:52:52,445 --> 01:52:53,975

make sure that didn't happen again.

 

2462

01:52:54,005 --> 01:52:59,105

And you're right, the ai, you know, now

the, I think the hope is that if we can

 

2463

01:52:59,795 --> 01:53:06,845

create, uh, a decentralized system and

we could do it through the internet, um,

 

2464

01:53:06,995 --> 01:53:09,395

then we, we, we could change the world.

 

2465

01:53:09,485 --> 01:53:14,885

I mean, there's, there's all kinds of

opportunities to be created with, uh.

 

2466

01:53:14,970 --> 01:53:20,370

Time bartering, um, through the internet,

you know, if you've got a skill or stuff.

 

2467

01:53:20,370 --> 01:53:23,580

I mean, you see it, you know, with

people, uh, trading stuff, you

 

2468

01:53:23,580 --> 01:53:25,710

know, online, they're trading stuff.

 

2469

01:53:25,710 --> 01:53:27,240

They're like, I've got an old stereo.

 

2470

01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:27,930

I don't want it.

 

2471

01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:33,930

You know, and, uh, but I'm, I need

to put new hubcaps on my 56 Corvette.

 

2472

01:53:33,930 --> 01:53:34,735

Does anybody have?

 

2473

01:53:34,830 --> 01:53:39,000

And then, so they're swapping stuff,

but it doesn't have to end with stuff.

 

2474

01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:41,220

It can end with, you know, skills.

 

2475

01:53:41,370 --> 01:53:41,460

Mm-hmm.

 

2476

01:53:41,700 --> 01:53:46,140

It can, it can, we can start, we can

start a kind of a distributed system

 

2477

01:53:46,170 --> 01:53:49,470

where money doesn't become as important.

 

2478

01:53:49,500 --> 01:53:54,480

We still need it for some things, but it's

kind of a, kind of a Star Trek culture.

 

2479

01:53:54,480 --> 01:53:58,260

Sort of a, you know, which

we could be heading for.

 

2480

01:53:58,260 --> 01:54:01,590

We could create that, but we

have to create it and nobody's

 

2481

01:54:01,590 --> 01:54:03,240

gonna be, you know, helping us.

 

2482

01:54:03,570 --> 01:54:04,470

They don't like that.

 

2483

01:54:04,650 --> 01:54:07,770

They don't like that system, which I

think is why we're starting to see more.

 

2484

01:54:08,480 --> 01:54:14,180

Uh, attempts at, uh, censorship and, you

know, digital ID and all this nuttiness

 

2485

01:54:14,180 --> 01:54:16,010

that people should really avoid.

 

2486

01:54:16,550 --> 01:54:16,910

Yeah.

 

2487

01:54:16,940 --> 01:54:17,915

We like the plague.

 

2488

01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:18,590

Yeah.

 

2489

01:54:18,590 --> 01:54:21,950

I, you know, I think I was fortunate that

when I was in high school, I actually had

 

2490

01:54:21,950 --> 01:54:26,060

a few good te you know, teachers, ones

that would kind of break away from the

 

2491

01:54:26,060 --> 01:54:29,810

curriculum, just getting into discussions

and kinda lets your, you know, your brain

 

2492

01:54:29,810 --> 01:54:33,920

breathe and like, really, you know, talk

about those are life changing as a kid.

 

2493

01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:35,540

That's life changing stuff.

 

2494

01:54:35,570 --> 01:54:39,440

So I'm remembering, I'm remembering

ninth, 10th, 11th grade, you know,

 

2495

01:54:39,440 --> 01:54:42,500

different government and history classes

and the moment we're in right now, I'm

 

2496

01:54:42,500 --> 01:54:45,050

going, oh, I read about stuff like that.

 

2497

01:54:45,050 --> 01:54:45,830

I remember that.

 

2498

01:54:45,830 --> 01:54:48,555

You know, industrial

Revolution, the, all the right.

 

2499

01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:52,690

And the robber bar, the robber

barons and all that jazz, you know?

 

2500

01:54:52,690 --> 01:54:52,780

Right.

 

2501

01:54:52,810 --> 01:54:53,320

Yeah.

 

2502

01:54:53,710 --> 01:54:58,060

Notice how they changed the laws so that,

you know, the, the, uh, when they broke up

 

2503

01:54:58,060 --> 01:55:00,910

all the monopolies that they had mm-hmm.

 

2504

01:55:00,910 --> 01:55:04,420

There were big laws about monopoly

breaking, but we've gotten around

 

2505

01:55:04,420 --> 01:55:06,640

those in the digital world.

 

2506

01:55:06,670 --> 01:55:06,760

Mm-hmm.

 

2507

01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:07,990

They don't apply.

 

2508

01:55:08,590 --> 01:55:15,070

So the, the monopolies are back and, uh,

I don't see the, uh, the gusto that they

 

2509

01:55:15,070 --> 01:55:20,950

had to, to break up the digital monopolies

because, uh, the digital monopolies offer,

 

2510

01:55:21,430 --> 01:55:24,310

uh, much more control over the population.

 

2511

01:55:24,580 --> 01:55:27,550

So that's, well, that's really

interesting, uh, in your industry.

 

2512

01:55:28,100 --> 01:55:29,840

Uh, that, that, that has changed.

 

2513

01:55:29,840 --> 01:55:32,690

And it's, it's like you have two

different, for you have the big corporate

 

2514

01:55:32,690 --> 01:55:35,810

thing happening, the mergers and all

that, but you also have, you know, people

 

2515

01:55:35,810 --> 01:55:39,140

being able to go out, create a thing, put

it online, you know, very democratized.

 

2516

01:55:39,140 --> 01:55:41,420

I'm hoping that that is what happens.

 

2517

01:55:41,420 --> 01:55:44,930

What we, you know, what we,

here's, it's a skillset.

 

2518

01:55:45,500 --> 01:55:46,010

Okay?

 

2519

01:55:46,010 --> 01:55:49,370

Now, just because you can make

great images does not mean

 

2520

01:55:49,370 --> 01:55:50,690

you can tell a great story.

 

2521

01:55:50,690 --> 01:55:50,750

Yeah.

 

2522

01:55:50,780 --> 01:55:52,640

That's a whole other skillset.

 

2523

01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:54,950

But people have that skillset.

 

2524

01:55:55,010 --> 01:55:58,460

The same people that grow up and

come out to Hollywood and, and,

 

2525

01:55:58,460 --> 01:56:02,840

uh, become directors and producers

and actors, uh, and writers and

 

2526

01:56:02,840 --> 01:56:05,810

editors, um, and everything else.

 

2527

01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:11,750

Those skills, those skills, those

talents exist, and the computer,

 

2528

01:56:11,835 --> 01:56:16,370

what, what we're able to do in

image creation is just another tool.

 

2529

01:56:16,940 --> 01:56:18,830

Um, you still need the talent.

 

2530

01:56:19,235 --> 01:56:23,315

Uh, to be able to use it, you know,

it, it really is just another tool

 

2531

01:56:24,275 --> 01:56:26,435

like sampling music, sampling.

 

2532

01:56:26,435 --> 01:56:29,945

When people started grabbing

little snippets of other songs

 

2533

01:56:29,945 --> 01:56:31,205

and putting 'em into their songs.

 

2534

01:56:31,205 --> 01:56:33,425

Like people just lost their

minds in the beginning.

 

2535

01:56:33,425 --> 01:56:36,515

They're like, you can't steal,

you know, those, that, that

 

2536

01:56:36,515 --> 01:56:38,195

chorus and throw it into a song.

 

2537

01:56:38,435 --> 01:56:40,025

But it just became another tool.

 

2538

01:56:40,025 --> 01:56:43,835

And when it's done really well, it's,

it's, um, you know, people talk about

 

2539

01:56:43,835 --> 01:56:47,825

AI and I, I understand it's gonna be the

new toy for a lot of people, but I think

 

2540

01:56:47,825 --> 01:56:52,355

inherently, uh, like just the world of

voiceover that I've floated in for many

 

2541

01:56:52,355 --> 01:56:55,985

years, I remember 30 years ago people

were saying words like non announcer,

 

2542

01:56:55,985 --> 01:57:00,425

real person, conversational, authentic,

you know, that's what they 'cause PE

 

2543

01:57:00,455 --> 01:57:02,225

we have a craving for authenticity.

 

2544

01:57:02,225 --> 01:57:05,225

So that's the reason why I

think that AI's got, uh, you

 

2545

01:57:05,225 --> 01:57:06,515

know, it does have a shelf life.

 

2546

01:57:06,515 --> 01:57:10,325

I think it only lasts until people get

really hungry for that authenticity again.

 

2547

01:57:10,325 --> 01:57:14,285

Then I think things will, you know,

I think the authenticity is there's

 

2548

01:57:14,285 --> 01:57:17,915

gonna be a real hunger for real people.

 

2549

01:57:18,625 --> 01:57:25,735

Telling real stories about real life and

the real emotions and experiences, those

 

2550

01:57:25,735 --> 01:57:31,675

cathartic moments that you're able to

have when you watch a story about, uh, and

 

2551

01:57:31,675 --> 01:57:36,985

you believe it, you know, you have great

acting and wonderful, uh, story to tell.

 

2552

01:57:36,985 --> 01:57:42,655

That is, I think is, is we're

gonna see, um, stories start

 

2553

01:57:42,655 --> 01:57:43,735

to move in that direction.

 

2554

01:57:43,735 --> 01:57:47,005

I could see another period

that we had in the nineties

 

2555

01:57:47,005 --> 01:57:49,165

when independent film exploded.

 

2556

01:57:49,165 --> 01:57:49,225

Yeah.

 

2557

01:57:49,225 --> 01:57:51,955

And Sundance became a, a big thing.

 

2558

01:57:52,405 --> 01:57:57,700

I think that we could be heading for

another period like that just because

 

2559

01:57:57,840 --> 01:57:59,725

of exactly what you, I've been feeling

that, I've been feeling the same way

 

2560

01:57:59,725 --> 01:58:01,105

also because I'm going, what's next?

 

2561

01:58:01,105 --> 01:58:01,555

What's next?

 

2562

01:58:01,555 --> 01:58:03,745

Even back to Paul Thomas

Sanders, you know, boogie Nights.

 

2563

01:58:03,925 --> 01:58:07,045

That was considered a, an

independent film, was it not?

 

2564

01:58:07,045 --> 01:58:08,035

I mean, for its time.

 

2565

01:58:08,365 --> 01:58:08,725

Yeah.

 

2566

01:58:08,725 --> 01:58:13,045

That was right in the pocket of the

kind of movies that were getting a

 

2567

01:58:13,045 --> 01:58:16,885

lot of attention because they were

independent anti-establishment against.

 

2568

01:58:17,525 --> 01:58:24,785

The grain, um, uh, quirky, uh,

oddball sort of stories that you

 

2569

01:58:24,785 --> 01:58:29,015

could tell and, and that, and

it had a real, a real moment.

 

2570

01:58:29,015 --> 01:58:33,965

I think those are gonna come back and, uh,

I think Hollywood will also follow along.

 

2571

01:58:33,965 --> 01:58:37,295

I just saw a movie last

night called Song, song Blue.

 

2572

01:58:37,415 --> 01:58:37,655

Mm-hmm.

 

2573

01:58:38,165 --> 01:58:43,655

And, um, it's, I didn't re uh, uh,

about half, there's so many crazy

 

2574

01:58:43,655 --> 01:58:45,245

things that happened in that movie.

 

2575

01:58:45,245 --> 01:58:47,405

I thought, who the hell wrote this thing?

 

2576

01:58:47,405 --> 01:58:51,155

And then I, at the end, I discovered

that it was based on a real

 

2577

01:58:51,155 --> 01:58:56,630

story, a true story about these

impersonators Neil Diamond impersonate.

 

2578

01:58:56,635 --> 01:58:57,275

It's brilliant.

 

2579

01:58:57,605 --> 01:59:01,685

But what I loved about it was,

it it, after I walked out of that

 

2580

01:59:01,685 --> 01:59:04,775

movie and I thought, the, this

is the kind of movie that's gonna

 

2581

01:59:04,775 --> 01:59:08,015

save Hollywood, uh, because it's.

 

2582

01:59:08,495 --> 01:59:14,075

It's about real people, and it has

craft, masterfully told stories

 

2583

01:59:14,075 --> 01:59:18,875

that where you get to experience,

um, real emotions and real human

 

2584

01:59:18,875 --> 01:59:20,585

beings that's not going anywhere.

 

2585

01:59:21,755 --> 01:59:25,325

Well, have you thought, I even, of course,

being in front of the camera, but is there

 

2586

01:59:25,325 --> 01:59:28,475

ever, has there ever been an inclination

for you to say, okay, I wanna produce,

 

2587

01:59:28,475 --> 01:59:32,045

I wanna dry, I wanna create something

I think is kind of missing right now.

 

2588

01:59:32,195 --> 01:59:33,395

Have you ever had that itch?

 

2589

01:59:33,605 --> 01:59:35,525

Oh, that's, that's what we're doing.

 

2590

01:59:35,525 --> 01:59:40,595

I've got a company called Renegade

and um, we produced a show for

 

2591

01:59:40,595 --> 01:59:42,995

TRO for, for Amazon called Troppo.

 

2592

01:59:43,355 --> 01:59:43,595

Mm-hmm.

 

2593

01:59:44,075 --> 01:59:45,905

Uh, which we developed and produced.

 

2594

01:59:45,905 --> 01:59:48,575

And it was based on, that's

one in Australia or, uh.

 

2595

01:59:49,025 --> 01:59:49,355

Yeah.

 

2596

01:59:49,385 --> 01:59:49,625

Okay.

 

2597

01:59:49,805 --> 01:59:50,225

Shot it.

 

2598

01:59:50,225 --> 01:59:54,575

No, it's based on a, on a, on an

Australian author named Candace Fox.

 

2599

01:59:54,755 --> 01:59:55,505

Terrific.

 

2600

01:59:56,075 --> 01:59:57,275

Called Crimson Lake.

 

2601

01:59:57,335 --> 02:00:01,745

Um, he, she created these great couple

of characters, you know, a burnt out,

 

2602

02:00:01,865 --> 02:00:07,565

a detective who was on the lam and, uh,

this crazy lady who had spent 10 years

 

2603

02:00:07,565 --> 02:00:09,185

in prison for killing her best friend.

 

2604

02:00:09,515 --> 02:00:12,875

And they hook up and become

this unlikely detective duo.

 

2605

02:00:13,235 --> 02:00:14,225

It was so much fun.

 

2606

02:00:14,435 --> 02:00:19,985

And, um, it got, it, made it to

number four on Amazon, uh, was in

 

2607

02:00:19,985 --> 02:00:23,555

the top 10 for 10 weeks, you know,

and we were behind fallout, you

 

2608

02:00:23,555 --> 02:00:25,340

know, we, we, and this is, oh, okay.

 

2609

02:00:25,595 --> 02:00:32,015

This is, this is smaller budget, um,

dramatic, uh, storytelling, which

 

2610

02:00:32,015 --> 02:00:34,595

is, which is exactly what I wanna do.

 

2611

02:00:34,595 --> 02:00:38,075

So we're creating a couple of other shows.

 

2612

02:00:38,165 --> 02:00:40,445

Um, I've also got a graphic novel.

 

2613

02:00:40,445 --> 02:00:43,985

I've, I did graphic novels about

10 years ago, and I'm back.

 

2614

02:00:44,435 --> 02:00:46,085

So I've got a werewolf book.

 

2615

02:00:46,520 --> 02:00:49,250

Out on Comicology, which is on Amazon.

 

2616

02:00:49,250 --> 02:00:50,990

You can read it on your Kindle.

 

2617

02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:51,500

Really?

 

2618

02:00:51,500 --> 02:00:51,560

Yeah.

 

2619

02:00:51,590 --> 02:00:53,930

But it's called the Li

it's called the Lichen.

 

2620

02:00:54,290 --> 02:00:57,230

That's something I'd like to

find a little bit more about.

 

2621

02:00:57,230 --> 02:01:02,150

You know, I never, graphic novels are, uh,

one, uh, just to, you know, I, I'm, I'm

 

2622

02:01:02,150 --> 02:01:06,980

trying to make sure that they stay alive

and people, uh, you know, can read, read.

 

2623

02:01:06,980 --> 02:01:11,120

Comic people are not, aren't

even reading comic books anymore.

 

2624

02:01:11,120 --> 02:01:14,180

You know, you know, something's

up when, uh, you can't even get

 

2625

02:01:14,180 --> 02:01:15,530

somebody to read a comic book.

 

2626

02:01:15,530 --> 02:01:18,920

Back in the day, you were like, why

are you reading those comic books?

 

2627

02:01:18,920 --> 02:01:20,330

Why don't you read a real book?

 

2628

02:01:20,990 --> 02:01:24,800

That was, that was the, the,

the mother, the famous mother

 

2629

02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:26,270

phrase, you know, being jx.

 

2630

02:01:26,270 --> 02:01:30,410

I think we had some of the best

stuff available, uh, you know.

 

2631

02:01:31,130 --> 02:01:35,930

To just kind of spark our imagination

back in the day, you know, like, uh, what,

 

2632

02:01:35,930 --> 02:01:38,750

what were you consuming when you were,

I mean, what, what do you think was the

 

2633

02:01:38,750 --> 02:01:42,440

genesis of you wanting to do this thing as

far as what you were watching or reading

 

2634

02:01:42,440 --> 02:01:46,580

or, you know, if you go back circa 80

something, you know, what were you going,

 

2635

02:01:46,670 --> 02:01:48,260

okay, this is setting my brain on fire.

 

2636

02:01:48,260 --> 02:01:48,540

I like this.

 

2637

02:01:49,670 --> 02:01:53,270

It was the independent comic

book scene in the eighties.

 

2638

02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:55,730

Uh, there were a couple of companies.

 

2639

02:01:55,730 --> 02:02:00,890

One, one of them was called Eclipse and

the other was called Pacific Comics.

 

2640

02:02:01,580 --> 02:02:07,970

And Pacific had a couple of lines,

uh, of anthologies, comic books,

 

2641

02:02:07,970 --> 02:02:12,710

and one was called Alien Worlds

and it was all sci-fi stories and

 

2642

02:02:12,710 --> 02:02:14,570

the other was called Twisted Tails.

 

2643

02:02:14,600 --> 02:02:16,310

And that was all horror stories.

 

2644

02:02:16,315 --> 02:02:16,325

Mm-hmm.

 

2645

02:02:16,730 --> 02:02:19,430

And they're still some of

the best stuff I've read.

 

2646

02:02:19,490 --> 02:02:24,320

Just the art and the writing created by

Bruce Jones, who I got to know later.

 

2647

02:02:25,010 --> 02:02:27,470

Uh, great guy, wonderfully talented.

 

2648

02:02:28,010 --> 02:02:31,460

Uh, and he's making stories, you

know, and it is just something

 

2649

02:02:31,460 --> 02:02:34,790

so gratifying about, um.

 

2650

02:02:35,375 --> 02:02:40,925

The, uh, the comic book panel, the

page, you know, the, the art, the story.

 

2651

02:02:41,045 --> 02:02:44,435

What's wonderful is every artist

can create a world that you

 

2652

02:02:44,435 --> 02:02:46,805

can fall into that's unique.

 

2653

02:02:46,895 --> 02:02:46,985

Mm-hmm.

 

2654

02:02:47,405 --> 02:02:50,135

And that's what's so great

about the comic book artists.

 

2655

02:02:50,195 --> 02:02:52,625

And now, you know, they're,

they're still out there and

 

2656

02:02:52,625 --> 02:02:54,695

they're still doing fantastic work.

 

2657

02:02:54,755 --> 02:03:01,445

The guy that we used is, um, Argentinian,

he's, uh, Diego Yur, who I found in

 

2658

02:03:01,445 --> 02:03:03,455

the pages of Heavy Metal Magazine.

 

2659

02:03:04,505 --> 02:03:08,495

And, uh, the work that he's done

is extraordinary and it's, it's

 

2660

02:03:08,615 --> 02:03:13,085

gratifying to be able to work with

other artists like a director, right.

 

2661

02:03:13,145 --> 02:03:14,135

Which I direct.

 

2662

02:03:14,135 --> 02:03:20,585

I directed a couple of episodes of Troppo,

um, and, uh, plan on doing more of that

 

2663

02:03:20,825 --> 02:03:22,835

because I really, really enjoyed it.

 

2664

02:03:23,075 --> 02:03:27,185

I love bringing out the best in

people, and that's what you do,

 

2665

02:03:27,425 --> 02:03:29,165

uh, in the comic book business.

 

2666

02:03:29,165 --> 02:03:29,675

You find.

 

2667

02:03:30,065 --> 02:03:32,045

The best writer for the job.

 

2668

02:03:32,045 --> 02:03:36,695

You find the best artist and you

marry these, the colorist, uh, and

 

2669

02:03:36,695 --> 02:03:42,665

you marry these talents to create

a world, a story and a world, a

 

2670

02:03:42,665 --> 02:03:44,915

visual world that you can fall into.

 

2671

02:03:45,215 --> 02:03:45,575

Yeah.

 

2672

02:03:45,785 --> 02:03:51,395

And that, and then, and then working with

those guys, the process of bringing it

 

2673

02:03:51,395 --> 02:03:57,215

to life, uh, is very gratifying when you,

uh, when you hold that book in your hands.

 

2674

02:03:57,755 --> 02:03:57,845

Yeah.

 

2675

02:03:57,845 --> 02:04:01,775

Those collaborations, like, like you had

mentioned before, you know, as far as not

 

2676

02:04:01,775 --> 02:04:05,465

like to be in big crowds and all that, you

know, but there is something really cool

 

2677

02:04:05,465 --> 02:04:09,425

that I, I identify with that, but when

you collaborate with a couple, few people

 

2678

02:04:09,425 --> 02:04:13,295

and y'all are all kind of on the same

frequency, that's, I I think it's really

 

2679

02:04:13,295 --> 02:04:14,885

rewarding and that that is one thing.

 

2680

02:04:14,890 --> 02:04:14,940

Yeah.

 

2681

02:04:14,940 --> 02:04:15,740

And you're bringing them together.

 

2682

02:04:16,210 --> 02:04:16,500

Yeah.

 

2683

02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:17,315

And so that's, that's right.

 

2684

02:04:17,315 --> 02:04:20,705

That is a direct as, as somebody who's

producing or directing a show, you're,

 

2685

02:04:20,945 --> 02:04:23,825

you know, you're wrangling people

to do a, you have this vision and.

 

2686

02:04:24,125 --> 02:04:26,525

Have, I've done just a little

bit of acting, you know, but when

 

2687

02:04:26,525 --> 02:04:28,745

you're on a set, you are, like,

being an actor is the easy part.

 

2688

02:04:28,745 --> 02:04:31,655

You know, having to like be a director,

having to be this ringmaster, that's,

 

2689

02:04:31,865 --> 02:04:35,285

that's the word, you know, being

actor's, the easy part for sure.

 

2690

02:04:35,345 --> 02:04:35,855

You know?

 

2691

02:04:36,095 --> 02:04:40,715

But the good news is it's

distributed, uh, responsibility.

 

2692

02:04:40,775 --> 02:04:45,605

You know, as a director, you're,

you're the dis, you're the distributor

 

2693

02:04:45,605 --> 02:04:50,885

of responsibility and, and getting

people that you trust and, and allowing

 

2694

02:04:50,885 --> 02:04:56,015

them to do the best work that they

can, uh, is really the whole game.

 

2695

02:04:56,045 --> 02:04:59,285

You know, if you're trying to control

things and you're like, no, I want it

 

2696

02:04:59,285 --> 02:05:05,825

this way, then generally you're not

gonna get, uh, a top-notch product.

 

2697

02:05:05,825 --> 02:05:11,165

What you wanna do is allow the artist,

whether that's the production designer or

 

2698

02:05:11,165 --> 02:05:17,045

the costumer, or the guy that you drive

around looking for locations with, uh,

 

2699

02:05:17,435 --> 02:05:19,985

to bring out the best in the in, in them.

 

2700

02:05:20,825 --> 02:05:21,455

Um.

 

2701

02:05:22,220 --> 02:05:25,160

It may it, it it for the crew.

 

2702

02:05:25,160 --> 02:05:27,950

It makes getting up and going

to work a fun experience.

 

2703

02:05:27,950 --> 02:05:30,350

And that's what you want because

that's where you get the best work.

 

2704

02:05:30,530 --> 02:05:33,890

You mentioned the, the being a

director of a show, you know, like a

 

2705

02:05:33,890 --> 02:05:36,110

movies, director's, medium television.

 

2706

02:05:36,110 --> 02:05:38,990

It's kind of a writer's medium,

but there was so much consist

 

2707

02:05:38,990 --> 02:05:41,480

going back to Expanse 'cause I'm

gonna nerd out on it a little bit.

 

2708

02:05:41,480 --> 02:05:42,410

Love that show.

 

2709

02:05:42,500 --> 02:05:46,160

Uh, but it seemed like to me

there was so much consistency.

 

2710

02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:49,280

You know, you'd have different directors

episode, episode, but it seems like there

 

2711

02:05:49,280 --> 02:05:51,680

was a very common aesthetic and vibe.

 

2712

02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:55,520

Like talk about the costumers,

the, um, just the choices they

 

2713

02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:57,080

made on just like your haircut.

 

2714

02:05:57,080 --> 02:06:00,890

Like all it seems like that was

a very intentional every day.

 

2715

02:06:01,295 --> 02:06:06,785

Peace, what, you know, a great opportunity

to, to create a world from the ground up.

 

2716

02:06:06,845 --> 02:06:06,935

Oh yeah.

 

2717

02:06:06,935 --> 02:06:10,445

That's one of the things about

sci-fi that, uh, is really strong

 

2718

02:06:10,445 --> 02:06:11,975

or it can be like really bad.

 

2719

02:06:12,635 --> 02:06:14,795

Uh, there's kind of

no, nothing in between.

 

2720

02:06:15,185 --> 02:06:18,665

Um, but, but it was kind of, it was

kind of the vehicle, uh, sci-fi.

 

2721

02:06:18,665 --> 02:06:20,555

But we talk about authentic stories.

 

2722

02:06:20,555 --> 02:06:24,215

Like I remember that there's one scene

when you go and I was it, is it Julie Mao?

 

2723

02:06:24,215 --> 02:06:25,085

Is that the character's name?

 

2724

02:06:25,085 --> 02:06:26,240

You went into her apartment Yeah.

 

2725

02:06:26,465 --> 02:06:29,075

And you're sort of exploring

who this was by just looking

 

2726

02:06:29,075 --> 02:06:31,055

at her apartment and you, yeah.

 

2727

02:06:31,055 --> 02:06:34,925

You never met this person, but you

kind of developed a real, this very

 

2728

02:06:34,925 --> 02:06:37,985

authentic connection and that, that,

that's what I think made that show

 

2729

02:06:37,985 --> 02:06:40,205

so great was it was real human.

 

2730

02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:41,360

Stuff.

 

2731

02:06:41,390 --> 02:06:41,540

Yeah.

 

2732

02:06:41,545 --> 02:06:45,230

You know, you could, that's, that's

the, the core of it all needs to

 

2733

02:06:45,230 --> 02:06:49,460

come down to real human stuff, you

know, that's what you're looking for.

 

2734

02:06:49,460 --> 02:06:53,360

The, the story is just what

you're hanging the reality on.

 

2735

02:06:53,390 --> 02:06:59,510

The reality is, is the creation of,

uh, human emotions, human experiences,

 

2736

02:06:59,840 --> 02:07:05,030

uh, human conflicts and doubts and

fears and all that wonderful stuff goes

 

2737

02:07:05,030 --> 02:07:08,900

in and, and, and imperfections, but

also people who rise to the occasion.

 

2738

02:07:08,900 --> 02:07:12,620

You know, it's just, it's it, to me it

was, it had a perfect kind of ending,

 

2739

02:07:12,620 --> 02:07:14,630

but I'm like, no, it can't end now.

 

2740

02:07:14,630 --> 02:07:15,710

It must keep going, you know?

 

2741

02:07:16,070 --> 02:07:19,340

But, uh, but like your daughter, you

said is also doing the acting thing.

 

2742

02:07:19,340 --> 02:07:21,710

What piece of advice have

you handed off to her?

 

2743

02:07:21,710 --> 02:07:23,420

I'm sure you've got nuggets that you've.

 

2744

02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:26,000

Passed along to her along the way.

 

2745

02:07:26,005 --> 02:07:26,305

Uhhuh?

 

2746

02:07:26,660 --> 02:07:27,260

I do.

 

2747

02:07:27,260 --> 02:07:27,590

Yeah.

 

2748

02:07:27,590 --> 02:07:29,330

I've got a few little nuggets.

 

2749

02:07:29,330 --> 02:07:33,260

You know, she's surrounded by some

really, um, uh, you know, she's,

 

2750

02:07:33,260 --> 02:07:38,000

she's immersed in the, uh, in

the, in the artist artist's world.

 

2751

02:07:38,240 --> 02:07:44,390

You know, she grew up around books and

movies and paintings and everything else.

 

2752

02:07:44,390 --> 02:07:47,360

So I think there's something to that.

 

2753

02:07:47,630 --> 02:07:54,800

Um, uh, I think you can get

further faster if you grow up.

 

2754

02:07:54,860 --> 02:07:57,410

And this not just in the

art world, in any world.

 

2755

02:07:58,040 --> 02:08:03,860

Um, if you, if you have an affinity

for it, take advantage of it.

 

2756

02:08:03,860 --> 02:08:07,130

You know, people say, well, I, I,

they, they get nervous about some

 

2757

02:08:07,130 --> 02:08:08,810

kind of nepotism and all that.

 

2758

02:08:10,145 --> 02:08:13,895

It, the only thing that matters is

if, do you have an affinity for it?

 

2759

02:08:13,955 --> 02:08:14,795

Do you love it?

 

2760

02:08:15,035 --> 02:08:20,015

And if you love it, then you've got

this wonderful landscape, um, that's

 

2761

02:08:20,015 --> 02:08:27,185

been created around you by, uh, your

parents and their friends and that,

 

2762

02:08:27,185 --> 02:08:32,465

that circle who have also immersed the

themselves so you actually can get further

 

2763

02:08:32,465 --> 02:08:35,435

faster, um, because of that immersion.

 

2764

02:08:35,825 --> 02:08:37,535

You know, they say nepotism, then nepo.

 

2765

02:08:37,955 --> 02:08:39,605

That'll get you so far.

 

2766

02:08:39,605 --> 02:08:41,105

But it's kinda like professional sports.

 

2767

02:08:41,105 --> 02:08:43,685

I mean, if you can't, if

you're batting 100, yeah.

 

2768

02:08:43,775 --> 02:08:45,185

You're not gonna be playing in the majors.

 

2769

02:08:45,185 --> 02:08:45,450

You know?

 

2770

02:08:45,935 --> 02:08:47,765

You know, gotta, you

gotta show can perform.

 

2771

02:08:47,765 --> 02:08:49,355

Uh, now do you just have one daughter?

 

2772

02:08:49,595 --> 02:08:53,345

I've got one daughter and

she's, uh, changed my life.

 

2773

02:08:53,555 --> 02:08:58,025

You know, I was a, a wayward

soul, uh, before I had her.

 

2774

02:08:58,025 --> 02:09:06,245

And then, um, and she, so she's, she's,

uh, given me, uh, a new life that, uh,

 

2775

02:09:06,305 --> 02:09:08,765

I'm incredibly grateful for every day.

 

2776

02:09:09,035 --> 02:09:13,355

I'm lucky to have three wonderful

kids, but, uh, the, the, the, the more,

 

2777

02:09:13,355 --> 02:09:15,995

like my youngest is, is a lot like me.

 

2778

02:09:15,995 --> 02:09:19,505

So it doesn't create friction, but it's

sort of like, I think the things that

 

2779

02:09:19,505 --> 02:09:25,115

irritate her about me, you know, are the

things that we, we, we have in common.

 

2780

02:09:25,115 --> 02:09:28,205

So we, we've, you know, there's just

needing to meet her that, but as

 

2781

02:09:28,205 --> 02:09:31,565

she's got, she's, she's studying in

Europe right now, so she's doing that

 

2782

02:09:31,565 --> 02:09:33,125

would be great to be 19 years old.

 

2783

02:09:33,845 --> 02:09:37,175

Every weekend taking a train

somewhere, you know, and Europe.

 

2784

02:09:37,175 --> 02:09:37,865

Fantastic.

 

2785

02:09:37,895 --> 02:09:38,735

It's perfect.

 

2786

02:09:38,765 --> 02:09:42,785

I think all kids should be, should

be doing that, you know, see, seeing

 

2787

02:09:42,785 --> 02:09:49,505

the world, seeing how other people

live, uh, in is, uh, probably as a,

 

2788

02:09:49,565 --> 02:09:55,930

as a young person, uh, that's, um,

much more valuable than education.

 

2789

02:09:56,350 --> 02:09:59,915

So Is she, have you had a chance to

have her work on any of your projects at

 

2790

02:09:59,915 --> 02:10:01,595

all, or any things you've worked on or?

 

2791

02:10:01,865 --> 02:10:01,930

We did.

 

2792

02:10:01,935 --> 02:10:03,845

We did a movie together

when she was younger.

 

2793

02:10:03,845 --> 02:10:05,525

We did a little movie called Dig.

 

2794

02:10:06,035 --> 02:10:09,995

Uh, she's great and it, movie's not

so good, but she's, she's terrific and

 

2795

02:10:09,995 --> 02:10:13,985

it got her the experience, you know,

when you're young, you're just craving

 

2796

02:10:13,985 --> 02:10:21,545

experience And, um, we've, we've, um,

it's, it is sort of neat, you know, she

 

2797

02:10:21,545 --> 02:10:24,305

lives with me, so we're having, we're.

 

2798

02:10:24,555 --> 02:10:26,445

Uh, it's so interesting.

 

2799

02:10:26,445 --> 02:10:27,255

She's 22.

 

2800

02:10:27,255 --> 02:10:27,345

Mm-hmm.

 

2801

02:10:28,215 --> 02:10:30,015

And she's now an adult.

 

2802

02:10:30,330 --> 02:10:34,095

And, uh, and that in that we,

we have this adult relationship.

 

2803

02:10:34,155 --> 02:10:35,535

I'm getting used to that also.

 

2804

02:10:35,535 --> 02:10:37,725

It's like they're gonna be

their baby's baby forever.

 

2805

02:10:37,725 --> 02:10:38,025

Right.

 

2806

02:10:38,025 --> 02:10:41,895

But I remember being 22, what I was up to

there are, there are, there're they're a

 

2807

02:10:41,895 --> 02:10:43,245

human out in the world doing their thing.

 

2808

02:10:43,245 --> 02:10:45,555

I'm like, this is my daughter's

teaching school, my oldest.

 

2809

02:10:45,555 --> 02:10:48,135

And it's, it's weird

'cause it happened so fast.

 

2810

02:10:48,330 --> 02:10:53,385

You know, that's, uh, like your, it's

like your heart walks out the door every

 

2811

02:10:53,385 --> 02:10:58,275

day and, uh, it's just, uh, you just

hope that the world, uh, treats her.

 

2812

02:10:58,275 --> 02:10:58,695

Okay.

 

2813

02:10:58,905 --> 02:11:00,375

Uh, now is Patricia her mom?

 

2814

02:11:00,465 --> 02:11:00,585

Mm-hmm.

 

2815

02:11:01,005 --> 02:11:01,335

Okay.

 

2816

02:11:01,335 --> 02:11:01,345

Okay.

 

2817

02:11:01,545 --> 02:11:04,785

I, I had, uh, I had,

uh, David on, uh, ATA.

 

2818

02:11:05,025 --> 02:11:06,045

Real interesting guy.

 

2819

02:11:06,045 --> 02:11:07,365

That was a, that was a fun talk.

 

2820

02:11:07,365 --> 02:11:08,630

That's an, they were, yeah.

 

2821

02:11:08,630 --> 02:11:09,630

He's a unique individual.

 

2822

02:11:09,950 --> 02:11:10,310

I love David.

 

2823

02:11:10,765 --> 02:11:13,615

He, you know, he'll have a

great, great affinity for him.

 

2824

02:11:13,675 --> 02:11:15,385

He seems to have just the best heart.

 

2825

02:11:15,475 --> 02:11:16,615

He seems like a good dude.

 

2826

02:11:16,675 --> 02:11:20,275

You know, he just, uh, he's a, he's

a wonderful guy and he's got great

 

2827

02:11:20,365 --> 02:11:23,125

wack, we strange tastes, you know.

 

2828

02:11:23,125 --> 02:11:26,545

Um, he is similar to myself,

but in a different way.

 

2829

02:11:26,545 --> 02:11:28,105

You know, he's into different things.

 

2830

02:11:28,105 --> 02:11:31,375

But, uh, you know, it's really interesting

because we were talking about, uh,

 

2831

02:11:31,375 --> 02:11:32,755

Paul Rubins and it was interesting.

 

2832

02:11:32,755 --> 02:11:35,425

I just saw the Paul Rubins,

the peewee, that documenter,

 

2833

02:11:35,425 --> 02:11:36,445

which I think was wonderful.

 

2834

02:11:36,865 --> 02:11:36,955

Yeah.

 

2835

02:11:36,955 --> 02:11:37,495

And I was like, what?

 

2836

02:11:37,495 --> 02:11:38,935

Yeah, we were all friends.

 

2837

02:11:38,995 --> 02:11:40,105

Uh, with Paul.

 

2838

02:11:40,105 --> 02:11:44,725

We had some wonderful times together

and it was, uh, devastating.

 

2839

02:11:44,875 --> 02:11:45,955

I still Ms. Paul.

 

2840

02:11:46,625 --> 02:11:49,745

Paul Paul would send everybody,

he never missed a birthday.

 

2841

02:11:50,435 --> 02:11:51,665

He was that kind of guy.

 

2842

02:11:51,755 --> 02:11:57,035

And he would, if it was your birthday,

then throughout the day you would

 

2843

02:11:57,035 --> 02:12:00,395

just receive a series of texts.

 

2844

02:12:00,455 --> 02:12:06,455

Uh, and they could be jokes, um, they

could be memes and they could be those

 

2845

02:12:06,455 --> 02:12:11,195

little snippet movies, you know, uhhuh of

like a horse blowing out birthday candles

 

2846

02:12:11,195 --> 02:12:16,295

or you know, some woman slipping in the

kitchen and landing in a birthday cake.

 

2847

02:12:16,295 --> 02:12:19,565

Like you would get these

things scattered throughout the

 

2848

02:12:19,565 --> 02:12:20,825

day if it was your birthday.

 

2849

02:12:20,825 --> 02:12:22,895

And he did that with

everybody that he loved and.

 

2850

02:12:23,480 --> 02:12:27,380

And, um, that was just a small

piece of Paul Rubin that actually

 

2851

02:12:27,380 --> 02:12:28,640

made it into the documentary.

 

2852

02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:29,120

I remember that.

 

2853

02:12:29,125 --> 02:12:31,070

He was, he was telling,

uh, he had to stop.

 

2854

02:12:31,070 --> 02:12:33,800

He said, uh, I gotta start sending

my birthday things for the day.

 

2855

02:12:34,460 --> 02:12:37,700

You know, I think that was a wonderful

documentary, any kid of the eighties.

 

2856

02:12:37,865 --> 02:12:41,210

It, it was like, it kind of completed

like, it, it was, I think so.

 

2857

02:12:41,210 --> 02:12:41,480

Good.

 

2858

02:12:41,510 --> 02:12:45,500

'cause it gave you more appreciation,

empathy for the arc of his story.

 

2859

02:12:45,500 --> 02:12:45,560

Yeah.

 

2860

02:12:45,560 --> 02:12:47,480

I mean, um, he deserves it.

 

2861

02:12:47,600 --> 02:12:49,610

Truly wonderful human being.

 

2862

02:12:49,970 --> 02:12:53,720

So, looking at what you've, you

said character actor that, you

 

2863

02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:56,810

know, that's how you kind of frame

the nature of the work you do.

 

2864

02:12:57,290 --> 02:12:59,840

What is it you haven't done

that you want to knock out?

 

2865

02:12:59,870 --> 02:13:01,250

You like, this is on the agenda.

 

2866

02:13:01,250 --> 02:13:02,780

I must do this.

 

2867

02:13:03,140 --> 02:13:07,010

Yeah, I, I've got a script

that I'm working on.

 

2868

02:13:07,010 --> 02:13:12,080

It's gonna take me a while to,

to get it done, but, um, but

 

2869

02:13:12,080 --> 02:13:14,420

that I'm not gonna talk about.

 

2870

02:13:14,480 --> 02:13:18,050

But I do, uh, I do have things

that I haven't done yet.

 

2871

02:13:18,140 --> 02:13:19,760

I'm working on making 'em happen.

 

2872

02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:21,230

I really like.

 

2873

02:13:21,665 --> 02:13:24,395

Um, getting behind the camera now.

 

2874

02:13:25,235 --> 02:13:28,235

So developing a couple

of things to direct.

 

2875

02:13:28,325 --> 02:13:32,795

Uh, I I'm hoping that these

smaller, independent movies,

 

2876

02:13:32,825 --> 02:13:34,475

uh, start getting made again.

 

2877

02:13:34,480 --> 02:13:34,710

Yeah.

 

2878

02:13:34,715 --> 02:13:34,805

Yeah.

 

2879

02:13:34,835 --> 02:13:37,115

Because that's really

where my, my heart is.

 

2880

02:13:37,115 --> 02:13:41,495

I like these, these little stories

about human beings that, uh,

 

2881

02:13:41,675 --> 02:13:47,075

that live outside of, uh, your,

your normal everyday experience.

 

2882

02:13:47,075 --> 02:13:50,765

That's, um, what I think is so great

about, you know, the internet, you

 

2883

02:13:50,765 --> 02:13:54,005

know, the way these little rabbit

holes you're able to, to find and

 

2884

02:13:54,005 --> 02:13:58,565

go down, and it really brings us

closer together as human beings.

 

2885

02:13:58,565 --> 02:14:03,095

We start to understand each

other, um, a lot better, you know?

 

2886

02:14:03,095 --> 02:14:08,525

And I feel like these divisions that

have been created politically are false.

 

2887

02:14:08,555 --> 02:14:09,215

I really do.

 

2888

02:14:09,215 --> 02:14:11,075

It's, I think it's all

its own brand of theater.

 

2889

02:14:11,430 --> 02:14:12,090

Be honest with you.

 

2890

02:14:12,090 --> 02:14:15,180

That's the thing that it's all

manufactured, but this, but

 

2891

02:14:15,180 --> 02:14:18,900

the thing is, so many people

buy it hook, line, and sinker.

 

2892

02:14:18,900 --> 02:14:20,460

It works, you know?

 

2893

02:14:20,460 --> 02:14:24,300

And it, and it wor and I think it works on

all of us to, to, uh, greater or lesser.

 

2894

02:14:24,300 --> 02:14:27,360

It's not that dopa, it's, uh, the

dopamine hit that I think people get.

 

2895

02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:28,890

They, they wanna be en enraged.

 

2896

02:14:28,890 --> 02:14:31,020

And I'm like, you know,

there's something just chilled.

 

2897

02:14:31,020 --> 02:14:31,950

Think about it for a moment.

 

2898

02:14:31,950 --> 02:14:34,740

Let it bounce around your

mind before you've Yeah.

 

2899

02:14:34,740 --> 02:14:37,980

You know, you gonna, like, is

that gonna, is somebody gonna

 

2900

02:14:37,980 --> 02:14:39,450

bring that up at your funeral?

 

2901

02:14:39,720 --> 02:14:43,470

Like, if it's not that

important, then just let it go.

 

2902

02:14:43,800 --> 02:14:44,100

Yeah.

 

2903

02:14:44,100 --> 02:14:48,000

I, I'm really missing some of those

independent, uh, if you look in

 

2904

02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:51,930

Netflix, uh, sometimes they give

it a adjective of understated.

 

2905

02:14:52,290 --> 02:14:53,335

A lot of times they'll give it like, yeah.

 

2906

02:14:53,550 --> 02:14:57,415

It's just a story about people

navigating a thing, you know?

 

2907

02:14:57,755 --> 02:14:59,415

Now how do you have to be able to tell it?

 

2908

02:14:59,415 --> 02:15:01,890

Well, you know, you have to

still, it's entertainment.

 

2909

02:15:01,890 --> 02:15:04,650

You know, at the end of the day,

it's, I don't wanna watch boring

 

2910

02:15:04,650 --> 02:15:06,060

movies about nothing I want.

 

2911

02:15:06,060 --> 02:15:08,370

I wanna watch exciting

movies about nothing.

 

2912

02:15:08,810 --> 02:15:10,070

Now, how did play Dirty?

 

2913

02:15:10,130 --> 02:15:11,720

Uh, how did Play Dirty come to you?

 

2914

02:15:12,050 --> 02:15:16,640

I've worked with Shane, uh, before,

you know, me and Shane, um, when

 

2915

02:15:16,640 --> 02:15:20,600

he had the Nice guys as a script,

we took that down to Austin and did

 

2916

02:15:20,600 --> 02:15:23,900

a staged reading of the Nice Guys.

 

2917

02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:28,400

And so we, we've wanted to work

with each other since then.

 

2918

02:15:28,640 --> 02:15:33,440

'cause we just, you know, I just

love his work and, uh, and I like

 

2919

02:15:33,440 --> 02:15:34,670

the way it comes outta my mouth.

 

2920

02:15:34,670 --> 02:15:35,390

And so does he.

 

2921

02:15:35,390 --> 02:15:43,080

So when that movie, uh, got going, he

wanted me to play the part, uh, mm-hmm.

 

2922

02:15:43,130 --> 02:15:48,260

And I was in Toronto shooting

The Expanse, so I, I couldn't do

 

2923

02:15:48,260 --> 02:15:50,570

it, uh, which was heartbreaking.

 

2924

02:15:50,600 --> 02:15:50,660

No.

 

2925

02:15:50,660 --> 02:15:53,990

Which, which part in the nice

guys was, uh, the nice guys, the

 

2926

02:15:53,990 --> 02:15:56,390

other guy, you know, not, not, uh.

 

2927

02:15:56,465 --> 02:15:59,855

N not the Australian, uh, Russell.

 

2928

02:16:00,035 --> 02:16:00,815

Oh, uh, Ryan.

 

2929

02:16:01,475 --> 02:16:01,865

Uh, yeah.

 

2930

02:16:02,045 --> 02:16:02,765

Ryan's part.

 

2931

02:16:02,795 --> 02:16:03,155

Yeah.

 

2932

02:16:03,155 --> 02:16:03,185

Okay.

 

2933

02:16:03,365 --> 02:16:05,825

So we've wanted to work together.

 

2934

02:16:05,825 --> 02:16:10,655

So we finally, you know, when Predator

came along, uh, he wanted to do this,

 

2935

02:16:10,655 --> 02:16:12,275

this oddball version of Predator.

 

2936

02:16:12,275 --> 02:16:14,375

Of course, I said, yes, we had a blast.

 

2937

02:16:14,375 --> 02:16:17,765

And then so when, uh, played

Dirty came along, he wanted

 

2938

02:16:17,765 --> 02:16:20,825

me to, to, he gave me a call.

 

2939

02:16:20,825 --> 02:16:25,325

And anytime, uh, a guy like, uh,

Shane, you know, I learned that lesson

 

2940

02:16:25,325 --> 02:16:26,945

the hard way when I was younger.

 

2941

02:16:26,945 --> 02:16:33,305

I turned down really talented

directors, um, a couple of times.

 

2942

02:16:33,365 --> 02:16:37,415

And as I got older, I realized,

that's really dumb, you

 

2943

02:16:37,415 --> 02:16:38,855

know, and it doesn't matter.

 

2944

02:16:39,485 --> 02:16:42,875

I wanna do movies that I wanna watch.

 

2945

02:16:42,905 --> 02:16:44,825

That's sort of the general barometer.

 

2946

02:16:45,365 --> 02:16:50,135

But there's another side to the

business where if you, if you have

 

2947

02:16:50,135 --> 02:16:52,175

a particular talent and a really.

 

2948

02:16:52,745 --> 02:16:55,865

Strong director wants to

use it, you should take it.

 

2949

02:16:56,885 --> 02:17:01,055

Um, and, and, and that's called

being of service, you know?

 

2950

02:17:01,055 --> 02:17:01,115

Yeah.

 

2951

02:17:01,145 --> 02:17:06,065

So that's sort of something I was more

selfish as a young man, and now I'm much,

 

2952

02:17:06,125 --> 02:17:11,705

now I see I have a, a, a bigger sort of,

my scope has, has broadened a little bit.

 

2953

02:17:12,275 --> 02:17:13,805

Um, and it took me a while.

 

2954

02:17:13,805 --> 02:17:16,505

You know, again, this sort

of the, one of the downfall.

 

2955

02:17:16,820 --> 02:17:20,090

Downsides of being an outsider,

you know, things that might seem

 

2956

02:17:20,090 --> 02:17:22,580

obvious to other people, uh, take me.

 

2957

02:17:22,700 --> 02:17:25,250

Well, I think that's still a function

of being young in your twenties.

 

2958

02:17:25,250 --> 02:17:27,710

You know, like I, I talked to somebody

the other day, I said, there's no way in

 

2959

02:17:27,710 --> 02:17:31,610

hell I would go back and do my twenties

again unless I know what I know now.

 

2960

02:17:32,060 --> 02:17:34,970

You know, there's a lot of hitting

you edge against wall, you know?

 

2961

02:17:35,240 --> 02:17:35,630

Yeah.

 

2962

02:17:35,780 --> 02:17:38,960

Um, it's brutal, you know,

but it's a lot of fun though.

 

2963

02:17:38,960 --> 02:17:41,900

I mean, Jesus, I wasted

a lot of time with girls.

 

2964

02:17:42,680 --> 02:17:48,260

Um, it, it was nice to, uh, to sort of,

when, when that calms down a little bit,

 

2965

02:17:48,260 --> 02:17:52,760

the testosterone drops a little bit,

it a lot more time to get stuff done.

 

2966

02:17:52,970 --> 02:17:56,180

Kind of reminds me of an interview with

Dustin Hoffman and he says, you know,

 

2967

02:17:56,180 --> 02:17:59,030

the great thing about being my age, I,

he, I don't know if he was in his fifties

 

2968

02:17:59,030 --> 02:18:00,620

or sixties, it was an article already.

 

2969

02:18:00,620 --> 02:18:03,710

He said, you can just kinda walk down

the beach and you're not just paying

 

2970

02:18:03,710 --> 02:18:05,240

attention to like the girls and all that.

 

2971

02:18:05,240 --> 02:18:07,500

You're, you're noticing

everything around you.

 

2972

02:18:07,500 --> 02:18:08,065

You're more Right.

 

2973

02:18:08,065 --> 02:18:08,265

Life.

 

2974

02:18:08,295 --> 02:18:08,585

Yeah.

 

2975

02:18:08,585 --> 02:18:08,985

Everything else.

 

2976

02:18:09,295 --> 02:18:09,585

Yeah.

 

2977

02:18:09,735 --> 02:18:10,025

Yeah.

 

2978

02:18:10,715 --> 02:18:12,740

Everything that doesn't have a tail.

 

2979

02:18:13,160 --> 02:18:14,000

But what's that phrase?

 

2980

02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:16,370

If you don't look back on yourself

in your twenties and go, God, I was a

 

2981

02:18:16,370 --> 02:18:18,110

knucklehead, you're still a knucklehead.

 

2982

02:18:18,170 --> 02:18:18,620

You know?

 

2983

02:18:18,620 --> 02:18:20,240

So, um,

 

2984

02:18:27,440 --> 02:18:29,750

before we get running, I always

do something to call my seven

 

2985

02:18:29,750 --> 02:18:31,280

questions a little extra fun.

 

2986

02:18:31,520 --> 02:18:35,420

And the first question I

always ask everyone is What?

 

2987

02:18:35,420 --> 02:18:38,000

'cause I always gotta talk about

food at least once on the show.

 

2988

02:18:38,390 --> 02:18:40,940

Uh, what is your favorite comfort food?

 

2989

02:18:42,050 --> 02:18:43,310

Oh, comfort food.

 

2990

02:18:43,490 --> 02:18:43,670

Yeah.

 

2991

02:18:43,670 --> 02:18:43,820

Jesus.

 

2992

02:18:43,820 --> 02:18:46,940

The one thing, no matter good day,

bad day, you're like, it's just solid.

 

2993

02:18:46,940 --> 02:18:51,650

It it where you, well, I tell you

right now, um, see, I, I have this

 

2994

02:18:51,650 --> 02:18:53,420

thing about American chocolate.

 

2995

02:18:53,450 --> 02:18:55,400

It really sucks.

 

2996

02:18:55,430 --> 02:18:57,770

Like, you know, having gotten.

 

2997

02:18:58,805 --> 02:19:00,575

Uh, travel the world a little bit.

 

2998

02:19:01,025 --> 02:19:05,225

You find you, you walk into a

little grocery shop in, uh, France

 

2999

02:19:05,225 --> 02:19:06,575

and you get the best chocolate.

 

3000

02:19:06,665 --> 02:19:09,065

You know, it's just like they,

when they make something,

 

3001

02:19:09,065 --> 02:19:10,505

they make it right out here.

 

3002

02:19:10,505 --> 02:19:12,125

I don't know what the hell they put in it.

 

3003

02:19:12,215 --> 02:19:13,055

It's awful.

 

3004

02:19:13,295 --> 02:19:19,955

But I found this little company called

Quest, and they make a peanut butter cup

 

3005

02:19:20,435 --> 02:19:27,065

that only has like one gram of sugar,

and then it's got, um, whatever the hell,

 

3006

02:19:27,605 --> 02:19:31,505

uh, protein, it's, it's like, uh, so

you can kind of convince yourself that

 

3007

02:19:31,505 --> 02:19:33,215

you're actually eating a little protein.

 

3008

02:19:33,755 --> 02:19:38,495

And they are the best buttercup

peanut butter cups that I've ever had.

 

3009

02:19:38,495 --> 02:19:42,185

So I keep 'em in the fridge, and

whenever I get a little down, I grab one.

 

3010

02:19:42,555 --> 02:19:44,865

Well, they say dark chocolate is good.

 

3011

02:19:44,865 --> 02:19:45,105

Good.

 

3012

02:19:45,105 --> 02:19:48,285

I mean, the real chocolate, like

high cocoa percent is good for you.

 

3013

02:19:48,435 --> 02:19:51,345

It's your, yeah, I'm not a

big fan of dark chocolate.

 

3014

02:19:51,345 --> 02:19:56,055

You know, I some, some of it's

good, but, um, for the most part, I

 

3015

02:19:56,055 --> 02:19:57,675

wish I liked dark chocolate better.

 

3016

02:19:57,795 --> 02:19:57,885

Mm-hmm.

 

3017

02:19:58,185 --> 02:20:01,455

Because then I'd feel, you know, like I

was, you know, being healthy when I ate

 

3018

02:20:01,455 --> 02:20:04,845

it, you know, my daughter's name is Lily,

and there's, when you go through checkout

 

3019

02:20:04,845 --> 02:20:08,595

at Whole Foods, they have this Lilly's

chocolates bar, and they have like, but

 

3020

02:20:08,595 --> 02:20:12,585

it'd be this good chocolate that'd have

like, uh, berries in it or something.

 

3021

02:20:12,585 --> 02:20:13,365

It was so good.

 

3022

02:20:13,365 --> 02:20:15,915

It's, it's one of those things, you

sit there and by the time we get

 

3023

02:20:15,915 --> 02:20:16,905

home we've eaten the whole thing.

 

3024

02:20:16,905 --> 02:20:19,545

But the idea was to get it home and

it kind of keep it, you know, like

 

3025

02:20:19,575 --> 02:20:22,065

his little snack, you know, but

it never made it home, you know.

 

3026

02:20:22,515 --> 02:20:25,665

Um, now the next question I got for

you now, if you were going to sit

 

3027

02:20:25,665 --> 02:20:28,875

down and have coffee with you and

three other people living or not,

 

3028

02:20:29,385 --> 02:20:32,445

uh, talk story for a few hours,

who would those three people be?

 

3029

02:20:32,445 --> 02:20:33,345

You would like to sit down?

 

3030

02:20:33,345 --> 02:20:37,485

Ernest Hemingway, um, and Dashel Hammett.

 

3031

02:20:38,445 --> 02:20:40,485

Uh, Ernest Hemingway, Hamit.

 

3032

02:20:41,945 --> 02:20:48,875

Um, and then, uh, Anais Nin, who's Anais

Nin, why am I drawing a blank on that?

 

3033

02:20:49,055 --> 02:20:53,345

She hung out with Henry Miller

in the thirties, and they

 

3034

02:20:53,345 --> 02:20:55,685

were boyfriend and girlfriend.

 

3035

02:20:55,775 --> 02:20:59,015

Oh, and by the way, you gotta

put Henry Miller in there too.

 

3036

02:20:59,180 --> 02:20:59,530

Uhhuh.

 

3037

02:20:59,830 --> 02:21:03,485

But she was, she was a writer.

 

3038

02:21:03,545 --> 02:21:05,255

She wrote beautiful books.

 

3039

02:21:05,315 --> 02:21:11,525

Uh, the Diary of a of, um, Ananias Nin is

a great place to start, but the one that I

 

3040

02:21:11,525 --> 02:21:14,435

love is called A Spy in the House of Love.

 

3041

02:21:14,585 --> 02:21:17,315

I'm writing this down, so, uh oh.

 

3042

02:21:17,315 --> 02:21:17,705

Yeah.

 

3043

02:21:17,705 --> 02:21:21,815

Just a wonderful, uh, stuff, you

know, and, and, and it's nice.

 

3044

02:21:21,815 --> 02:21:25,775

If you've read Henry Miller, then you

can imagine the kind of world that

 

3045

02:21:25,775 --> 02:21:31,325

she was writing in and, and living in

when, when she was creating this stuff.

 

3046

02:21:31,355 --> 02:21:32,495

Well, here, here's a question.

 

3047

02:21:32,495 --> 02:21:36,365

It's not on my list, but this brings

me to, uh, like, I'm curious, like

 

3048

02:21:36,365 --> 02:21:38,405

if you could be born in any era.

 

3049

02:21:39,020 --> 02:21:40,665

Are you kind of like,

would you be forties?

 

3050

02:21:40,940 --> 02:21:41,330

The four.

 

3051

02:21:41,360 --> 02:21:41,720

Okay.

 

3052

02:21:41,810 --> 02:21:46,340

I, so I guess I'd wanna be born in

the twenties 'cause I'd wanna be

 

3053

02:21:46,340 --> 02:21:48,650

a man in the forties and fifties.

 

3054

02:21:48,650 --> 02:21:49,580

Yeah, I am.

 

3055

02:21:49,580 --> 02:21:50,420

It's a great era.

 

3056

02:21:51,170 --> 02:21:55,340

You know, the, the industry,

the industrial, uh, side of

 

3057

02:21:55,370 --> 02:21:58,130

western society was peaking.

 

3058

02:21:58,670 --> 02:22:03,740

Um, you know, we had the, in, we

were ma and, and we were still using.

 

3059

02:22:04,565 --> 02:22:05,975

Quality materials.

 

3060

02:22:05,975 --> 02:22:06,035

Yeah.

 

3061

02:22:06,065 --> 02:22:06,695

To build.

 

3062

02:22:06,695 --> 02:22:11,375

My house is built in 1940 and it's

built like a brick shit house.

 

3063

02:22:11,375 --> 02:22:11,855

Mm-hmm.

 

3064

02:22:12,020 --> 02:22:14,015

Um, and I, and I love that.

 

3065

02:22:14,225 --> 02:22:16,685

And, uh, I will never buy a new house.

 

3066

02:22:16,745 --> 02:22:19,595

Uh, I would never waste

the money on a new house.

 

3067

02:22:19,625 --> 02:22:22,085

You know, the thing I'm

thinking the same thing you are.

 

3068

02:22:22,085 --> 02:22:25,385

And I told my son the other day, I don't

think I'm ever gonna buy a new car again,

 

3069

02:22:25,385 --> 02:22:26,600

because I'm at that age, like, mm-hmm.

 

3070

02:22:26,680 --> 02:22:28,895

What car do I really want to drive?

 

3071

02:22:28,895 --> 02:22:30,305

You know, I can work on it a little bit.

 

3072

02:22:30,305 --> 02:22:34,325

You know, I I, and the cars from

the forties, fifties, you know, in

 

3073

02:22:34,325 --> 02:22:38,615

the sixties, you know, the, the,

I think about 73 is when it really

 

3074

02:22:38,615 --> 02:22:44,285

died, but, uh, but the forties

and fifties were peak because the.

 

3075

02:22:44,720 --> 02:22:47,030

Mechanics were worked out.

 

3076

02:22:47,600 --> 02:22:51,170

Uh, and the design was brilliant.

 

3077

02:22:51,260 --> 02:22:54,260

And they were, you know, they were

built, they were built to last.

 

3078

02:22:54,260 --> 02:22:54,470

Yeah.

 

3079

02:22:54,470 --> 02:22:58,460

That, that built in obsolescence

that goes into stuff these days.

 

3080

02:22:58,460 --> 02:22:59,390

Hadn't happened yet.

 

3081

02:22:59,420 --> 02:22:59,930

Yeah.

 

3082

02:22:59,930 --> 02:22:59,940

Yeah.

 

3083

02:23:00,470 --> 02:23:02,510

Um, now that next question got for you.

 

3084

02:23:02,510 --> 02:23:04,280

If you were to go back when

you were a kid, who was your

 

3085

02:23:04,280 --> 02:23:06,200

very first celebrity crush?

 

3086

02:23:08,360 --> 02:23:09,890

Oh, uh, Carol Baker.

 

3087

02:23:10,340 --> 02:23:10,400

Yeah.

 

3088

02:23:11,570 --> 02:23:14,720

Carol Baker, uh, from two movies.

 

3089

02:23:15,050 --> 02:23:20,000

One is she was in, uh,

uh, giant with James Dean.

 

3090

02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:20,120

Mm-hmm.

 

3091

02:23:20,510 --> 02:23:25,040

Which, uh, I, I loved James

Dean when I was a kid.

 

3092

02:23:25,040 --> 02:23:27,530

It, it really inspired me to be an actor.

 

3093

02:23:27,620 --> 02:23:33,530

And then, um, uh, baby Doll,

which was directed by Ilya Kazan.

 

3094

02:23:33,530 --> 02:23:35,570

The script is by Tennessee Williams.

 

3095

02:23:35,570 --> 02:23:36,500

Oh, okay.

 

3096

02:23:36,500 --> 02:23:38,840

Um, it's, it's got Eli Wallach in it.

 

3097

02:23:39,080 --> 02:23:41,600

Uh, it absolutely brilliant.

 

3098

02:23:41,990 --> 02:23:45,860

And it's the best female

performance that if for my money

 

3099

02:23:46,160 --> 02:23:47,660

that's ever been put on film.

 

3100

02:23:47,930 --> 02:23:49,490

The film is called Baby Doll.

 

3101

02:23:49,520 --> 02:23:54,170

Anybody, uh, want to, want to, um, if

you're into that kind of thing, like

 

3102

02:23:54,410 --> 02:23:59,030

incredibly beautiful women who can act

their ass off, uh, check out Carol Baker.

 

3103

02:23:59,560 --> 02:24:00,640

You're giving me homework here.

 

3104

02:24:00,640 --> 02:24:01,300

I like this.

 

3105

02:24:01,630 --> 02:24:03,100

You know, that's one of the

things I love about doing this.

 

3106

02:24:03,100 --> 02:24:05,830

I always end up learning something

or getting something on my, uh,

 

3107

02:24:06,130 --> 02:24:07,150

to Yeah, they're great to watch.

 

3108

02:24:07,150 --> 02:24:07,630

Movie list.

 

3109

02:24:07,630 --> 02:24:11,260

You, uh, now if you were

to be, next question.

 

3110

02:24:11,260 --> 02:24:13,960

If you're gonna be forced to live on

an island, uh, somewhere you wanna be

 

3111

02:24:13,960 --> 02:24:17,830

nice ex, you know, it's pretty, it's

tropical, uh, got all the wonderful

 

3112

02:24:17,830 --> 02:24:21,580

modern amenities, but you don't have

internet, so that means you're to, to

 

3113

02:24:21,580 --> 02:24:23,200

listen to music for that full year.

 

3114

02:24:23,200 --> 02:24:27,280

You're gonna be on the island, you gotta

bring one cd, uh, to listen to music and

 

3115

02:24:27,280 --> 02:24:28,570

to watch a movie, you gotta bring one.

 

3116

02:24:28,570 --> 02:24:29,140

DVD.

 

3117

02:24:29,140 --> 02:24:32,110

What would that cd and what

would that DVD be for you?

 

3118

02:24:32,890 --> 02:24:35,770

I like the final cut by Pink Floyd.

 

3119

02:24:36,100 --> 02:24:38,950

That is a record I can listen

to over and over again.

 

3120

02:24:39,220 --> 02:24:43,420

Now the wall gets, you know, it,

you can burn out on the wall.

 

3121

02:24:43,425 --> 02:24:43,545

Mm-hmm.

 

3122

02:24:43,695 --> 02:24:45,550

It's, it's, um, brilliant.

 

3123

02:24:45,550 --> 02:24:46,840

The dark side of the moon.

 

3124

02:24:46,900 --> 02:24:48,430

I can burn out on that too.

 

3125

02:24:48,545 --> 02:24:51,610

I, I don't really care if I ever

hear the dark side of the moon again.

 

3126

02:24:51,610 --> 02:24:55,090

I've only heard it about,

uh, maybe like 2000 times.

 

3127

02:24:55,090 --> 02:24:55,240

Yeah.

 

3128

02:24:56,005 --> 02:24:57,425

But, but the final cut.

 

3129

02:24:58,055 --> 02:25:04,175

Takes you on this journey and, and

the album ends where the album begins.

 

3130

02:25:04,175 --> 02:25:10,025

So it's a circular, uh, if you put it on

repeat, the, the album never ends, right?

 

3131

02:25:10,025 --> 02:25:15,125

So the last song ends precisely

where the first song begins.

 

3132

02:25:15,250 --> 02:25:15,470

Oh.

 

3133

02:25:15,515 --> 02:25:19,745

So it's a, it's a record that you

can put on and you, and whenever

 

3134

02:25:19,745 --> 02:25:21,515

you want, you never turn it off.

 

3135

02:25:21,605 --> 02:25:22,265

I could do that.

 

3136

02:25:22,265 --> 02:25:26,765

Well, every song is brilliant, but

it takes you on a journey, um, that

 

3137

02:25:26,765 --> 02:25:32,555

is emotional and philosophical and

spiritual that, uh, that I think

 

3138

02:25:32,555 --> 02:25:34,745

is, um, is their best record.

 

3139

02:25:35,380 --> 02:25:35,830

Very cool.

 

3140

02:25:35,830 --> 02:25:36,065

Very cool.

 

3141

02:25:36,875 --> 02:25:40,655

Now, as far as in a film,

yeah, that's a tough one.

 

3142

02:25:41,075 --> 02:25:42,785

I don't know, there's so many.

 

3143

02:25:43,895 --> 02:25:46,445

There's so many films.

 

3144

02:25:46,445 --> 02:25:48,845

What's a film that you

wouldn't get tired of?

 

3145

02:25:48,845 --> 02:25:49,295

Jesus.

 

3146

02:25:49,295 --> 02:25:49,355

Yeah.

 

3147

02:25:49,355 --> 02:25:51,785

What, what's like, what's something

that comes on whenever it comes on?

 

3148

02:25:51,905 --> 02:25:53,555

What's, doesn't really

happen as much anymore?

 

3149

02:25:53,555 --> 02:25:55,955

Like where something comes on TV

is already playing and you say,

 

3150

02:25:55,955 --> 02:25:57,305

I'm gonna finish watching this.

 

3151

02:25:57,305 --> 02:26:02,345

You know, there is anything I, I mean,

a wild bunch, that's a film that comes

 

3152

02:26:02,345 --> 02:26:06,545

on and whenever it comes on, of course

you have to watch TCM like I do.

 

3153

02:26:07,025 --> 02:26:08,765

Uh, otherwise it'll never come on.

 

3154

02:26:09,245 --> 02:26:15,275

But, uh, when the Wild Bunch comes

on, um, that's a, that's a symphony,

 

3155

02:26:15,425 --> 02:26:19,715

you know, that's a symphony of

film that you, uh, might be able

 

3156

02:26:19,715 --> 02:26:22,685

to, to see different things in.

 

3157

02:26:22,775 --> 02:26:24,695

Um, you know, that that's the key.

 

3158

02:26:24,695 --> 02:26:27,365

You want, you wanna pick

something that you can C con

 

3159

02:26:27,785 --> 02:26:29,975

that's continually unfolding.

 

3160

02:26:29,975 --> 02:26:30,035

Yeah.

 

3161

02:26:30,065 --> 02:26:34,835

That you're finding new, new

meaning, new things, uh, inside.

 

3162

02:26:35,615 --> 02:26:38,885

Um, and, uh, then those

kind of movies are, uh.

 

3163

02:26:40,025 --> 02:26:41,765

Are few and far between.

 

3164

02:26:42,875 --> 02:26:44,495

Blade Runner is a one.

 

3165

02:26:44,495 --> 02:26:45,695

Blade Runner is a one.

 

3166

02:26:45,815 --> 02:26:46,590

Oh, yeah.

 

3167

02:26:46,590 --> 02:26:46,750

Yeah.

 

3168

02:26:46,750 --> 02:26:49,385

The, the orig the uh, uh,

watch that, that yeah.

 

3169

02:26:49,385 --> 02:26:52,865

That's the, you can always find

new things in, in Blade Runner.

 

3170

02:26:53,135 --> 02:26:55,805

Well, it's got that film noir

kind of vibe to it, you know?

 

3171

02:26:55,805 --> 02:26:56,195

Doesn't it?

 

3172

02:26:56,405 --> 02:27:02,345

The best, it's the best combo of Phil Noir

science fictions Ever, ever made people,

 

3173

02:27:02,345 --> 02:27:04,355

people try, but, uh, that's the best.

 

3174

02:27:04,690 --> 02:27:06,335

Did, did, they did a remake

of that, didn't they?

 

3175

02:27:06,365 --> 02:27:08,225

With um Oh yeah.

 

3176

02:27:08,300 --> 02:27:08,590

Yeah.

 

3177

02:27:08,615 --> 02:27:09,095

It's great.

 

3178

02:27:09,215 --> 02:27:09,755

With Ryan.

 

3179

02:27:10,385 --> 02:27:11,435

Ryan Goslin was in it.

 

3180

02:27:11,435 --> 02:27:11,705

Yeah.

 

3181

02:27:12,365 --> 02:27:15,725

It's the one movie where you're like,

you know, if they had a producer cut.

 

3182

02:27:16,175 --> 02:27:17,225

It would've been brilliant.

 

3183

02:27:17,405 --> 02:27:21,995

It's just a, they let gave the, they

gave everybody a little too much leeway.

 

3184

02:27:22,475 --> 02:27:23,435

The movie's too long.

 

3185

02:27:23,795 --> 02:27:23,915

Yeah.

 

3186

02:27:23,915 --> 02:27:25,775

But brilliant.

 

3187

02:27:26,255 --> 02:27:29,315

I mean, as far as, you know,

movies that, that are too long,

 

3188

02:27:29,315 --> 02:27:30,815

it's, you know, one of the best.

 

3189

02:27:31,715 --> 02:27:31,895

Yeah.

 

3190

02:27:31,895 --> 02:27:32,795

Talk about film noir.

 

3191

02:27:32,795 --> 02:27:35,615

The, uh, that was that Ryan

Reynolds film, was it Drive, I

 

3192

02:27:35,615 --> 02:27:36,815

think had a great soundtrack.

 

3193

02:27:36,815 --> 02:27:37,775

I had a vibe to it.

 

3194

02:27:37,780 --> 02:27:40,955

It kind of had a Drive

is one of my favorites.

 

3195

02:27:40,985 --> 02:27:41,315

Yeah.

 

3196

02:27:41,465 --> 02:27:42,965

Drive is right up my alley.

 

3197

02:27:42,965 --> 02:27:44,970

The soundtrack that was just,

that's right up my alley.

 

3198

02:27:44,970 --> 02:27:45,170

Yeah.

 

3199

02:27:45,170 --> 02:27:45,570

Caught on.

 

3200

02:27:45,570 --> 02:27:45,730

Yeah.

 

3201

02:27:45,735 --> 02:27:45,815

Yeah.

 

3202

02:27:45,845 --> 02:27:47,465

Oh, and what a brilliant soundtrack.

 

3203

02:27:47,465 --> 02:27:48,095

Jesus.

 

3204

02:27:48,755 --> 02:27:49,865

I love the look of it.

 

3205

02:27:50,105 --> 02:27:51,275

I love the feel of it.

 

3206

02:27:51,515 --> 02:27:52,925

I love that actor in it.

 

3207

02:27:52,925 --> 02:27:53,465

The lead.

 

3208

02:27:53,705 --> 02:27:54,365

He's great.

 

3209

02:27:54,665 --> 02:27:55,715

Peak Peak.

 

3210

02:27:56,165 --> 02:28:00,095

So a movie like the film Noir, I think,

you know, does lean on the aesthetic,

 

3211

02:28:00,095 --> 02:28:03,575

the look, the, the energy you're picking

up, even when there's no dialogue.

 

3212

02:28:03,605 --> 02:28:07,775

I don't know, it's just you get emotion

from the shadows and the light play.

 

3213

02:28:07,775 --> 02:28:07,835

Yeah.

 

3214

02:28:07,835 --> 02:28:13,565

And you know, if you're, if the, the peak

of film no noir, um, you could turn the

 

3215

02:28:13,565 --> 02:28:17,915

sound down, you know, and then when you

turn the sound up, it's somebody like

 

3216

02:28:17,915 --> 02:28:20,675

Billy Wilder who's written the screenplay.

 

3217

02:28:20,705 --> 02:28:24,455

So yeah, it doesn't really get better than

the, than the Phil Noir or the forties.

 

3218

02:28:24,455 --> 02:28:25,235

And for my money.

 

3219

02:28:25,445 --> 02:28:29,465

Now you've reinvigorated me to jump

on the, uh, the streamers and go start

 

3220

02:28:29,465 --> 02:28:31,355

digging up some older movies here.

 

3221

02:28:31,745 --> 02:28:31,895

Right Now.

 

3222

02:28:32,255 --> 02:28:35,735

The next question I got for you, uh, is,

is if you're to say from stem to stern,

 

3223

02:28:35,735 --> 02:28:39,845

from the time you get up, time you go to

bed, what for you are the component parts

 

3224

02:28:39,905 --> 02:28:41,945

of what would be a perfect day for you?

 

3225

02:28:42,155 --> 02:28:45,965

You know, you said this day rocked this,

is, this had all the right ingredients?

 

3226

02:28:46,685 --> 02:28:52,235

Well, right now I am finishing a

book that I have written about.

 

3227

02:28:52,565 --> 02:28:59,015

Uh, aliens about visiting Aliens, alien

Intelligence, visiting Planet Earth.

 

3228

02:28:59,015 --> 02:29:04,415

It's a nonfiction book, and

I've been studying the subject

 

3229

02:29:04,415 --> 02:29:06,875

for, uh, I don't know, 15 years.

 

3230

02:29:07,085 --> 02:29:12,605

And, uh, we're hitting a really

interesting moment here in society

 

3231

02:29:12,605 --> 02:29:16,475

where this stuff is now starting to

bubble up to the, to the forefront.

 

3232

02:29:16,595 --> 02:29:21,125

You know, I spent years, and this was,

you know, u Ethological conventions

 

3233

02:29:21,125 --> 02:29:26,945

would just be, you know, 50 nerds in

the, the ballroom of a Holiday Inn.

 

3234

02:29:26,945 --> 02:29:29,315

But, but now it's, it's really grown.

 

3235

02:29:29,465 --> 02:29:33,485

Um, and we're, we're starting

to get an injection of serious,

 

3236

02:29:33,755 --> 02:29:35,795

uh, thought into the subject.

 

3237

02:29:35,855 --> 02:29:41,435

And the subject demands serious

thought, uh, because it challenges.

 

3238

02:29:42,035 --> 02:29:47,165

What we were talking about earlier,

it challenges humanity, uh, with,

 

3239

02:29:47,375 --> 02:29:50,675

um, a purpose, uh, with meaning.

 

3240

02:29:51,185 --> 02:29:57,215

It challenges us to, um, ask

ourselves what would it take to become

 

3241

02:29:57,725 --> 02:30:02,735

an, an interstellar civilization

beyond the, uh, technology?

 

3242

02:30:02,825 --> 02:30:04,865

It, it takes more than just technology.

 

3243

02:30:04,865 --> 02:30:09,755

It takes a coherence, uh, that

we currently don't have, but we

 

3244

02:30:10,145 --> 02:30:12,425

could learn a few things by, uh.

 

3245

02:30:13,130 --> 02:30:16,580

Studying the phenomenon

of visiting aliens.

 

3246

02:30:16,610 --> 02:30:16,760

Yeah.

 

3247

02:30:16,760 --> 02:30:19,460

The sociology of it is one of

the only things holding us back.

 

3248

02:30:19,460 --> 02:30:21,920

I remember Reagan had a, even,

he had some kind of a speech

 

3249

02:30:21,920 --> 02:30:24,110

you said of some alien thinking.

 

3250

02:30:24,110 --> 02:30:26,930

He mentioned it several

times in his speeches.

 

3251

02:30:26,930 --> 02:30:32,360

You know, imagine if we were facing a

threat from, you know, and that's, um,

 

3252

02:30:33,530 --> 02:30:36,020

minor, that's a very minor concern.

 

3253

02:30:36,020 --> 02:30:41,300

You know, you have to think civilization's

capable of destroying their planets,

 

3254

02:30:41,300 --> 02:30:46,130

but haven't done so be and lived

long enough to become cosmological.

 

3255

02:30:46,580 --> 02:30:50,120

Uh, they've outgrown, uh, war.

 

3256

02:30:50,210 --> 02:30:51,650

They've outgrown territory.

 

3257

02:30:51,650 --> 02:30:54,170

They've outgrown resource depletion.

 

3258

02:30:54,470 --> 02:30:54,890

Okay.

 

3259

02:30:55,220 --> 02:30:56,450

They've figured out.

 

3260

02:30:56,755 --> 02:31:02,425

Uh, how to live in this world, in this

universe, and that's what we need to do.

 

3261

02:31:02,425 --> 02:31:06,205

We need to figure out how to

live as opposed to just existing.

 

3262

02:31:06,210 --> 02:31:07,165

Yeah, yeah.

 

3263

02:31:07,170 --> 02:31:07,580

That's that.

 

3264

02:31:07,585 --> 02:31:09,115

And destroying ourselves.

 

3265

02:31:09,115 --> 02:31:09,175

Yeah.

 

3266

02:31:09,175 --> 02:31:10,465

We're not just existing.

 

3267

02:31:10,495 --> 02:31:15,325

We are damaging the life giving

systems that gave us life.

 

3268

02:31:15,325 --> 02:31:16,315

We're damaging them.

 

3269

02:31:16,345 --> 02:31:20,335

We're not just subsisting,

we are causing damage.

 

3270

02:31:20,605 --> 02:31:23,365

And, you know, we're all like,

well, what can I do about it?

 

3271

02:31:23,365 --> 02:31:27,325

I, I marvel at the amount of

trash that I make every day.

 

3272

02:31:28,165 --> 02:31:28,255

Yeah.

 

3273

02:31:28,260 --> 02:31:29,395

And just living, yeah.

 

3274

02:31:29,395 --> 02:31:32,095

Just like, you know,

just, just the basics.

 

3275

02:31:32,095 --> 02:31:35,455

Like, not going to, you know,

buying a new pair of boots.

 

3276

02:31:35,455 --> 02:31:38,815

You know, I don't do any of

that stuff, but just living

 

3277

02:31:38,815 --> 02:31:41,125

life, I create so much trash.

 

3278

02:31:41,155 --> 02:31:44,785

And then you gotta, you gotta times

that by billions and you're like, wow.

 

3279

02:31:44,845 --> 02:31:45,115

Yeah.

 

3280

02:31:45,115 --> 02:31:45,125

Yeah.

 

3281

02:31:45,905 --> 02:31:47,855

I was thinking about

that the other day also.

 

3282

02:31:47,855 --> 02:31:51,125

I was like, is it's just my kids are

off at school or it's just me and the

 

3283

02:31:51,125 --> 02:31:53,255

dog And I'm like, I'm taking the trash.

 

3284

02:31:53,255 --> 02:31:54,725

I'm like, how am I generating this much?

 

3285

02:31:54,725 --> 02:31:58,220

You know, I, I remember my eighth grade

history teacher told me when they, he,

 

3286

02:31:58,225 --> 02:32:02,015

he had lived it taught in Germany and

he remembered that he had this little

 

3287

02:32:02,015 --> 02:32:03,575

small trashcan in front of his house.

 

3288

02:32:03,575 --> 02:32:06,575

'cause they just didn't generate

the same amount of trash

 

3289

02:32:06,575 --> 02:32:07,700

trash that we did over here.

 

3290

02:32:07,730 --> 02:32:10,775

They do the trash cans

are smaller in Europe.

 

3291

02:32:10,775 --> 02:32:12,035

You're absolutely right.

 

3292

02:32:12,545 --> 02:32:14,435

I remember having that same epiphany.

 

3293

02:32:14,615 --> 02:32:17,075

I don't know, it's weird 'cause

they say you get more conservative

 

3294

02:32:17,075 --> 02:32:17,975

as you get older from me.

 

3295

02:32:17,975 --> 02:32:22,055

I'm getting more like, you know, dialed

into things like really it's, well 'cause

 

3296

02:32:22,055 --> 02:32:26,345

grew up in a, in the eighties that was the

conspicuous consumption decade, you know?

 

3297

02:32:26,735 --> 02:32:26,915

Yeah.

 

3298

02:32:26,915 --> 02:32:30,845

So, so that was so kind of still

deprogramming from that, I guess.

 

3299

02:32:30,845 --> 02:32:31,205

I don't know.

 

3300

02:32:31,445 --> 02:32:34,505

Look, now that I'm not

chasing tail every day, uh.

 

3301

02:32:36,105 --> 02:32:39,585

It's amazing how much time that frees up

in your life, you know, and you're not

 

3302

02:32:39,585 --> 02:32:43,845

concerned about, you know, peacocking

and, you know, and when you get older.

 

3303

02:32:43,845 --> 02:32:49,635

I think our job is to sort of, you know,

ma pose these questions and, uh, and

 

3304

02:32:49,635 --> 02:32:56,175

challenges to society, especially, uh,

as artists and as communicators, uh, that

 

3305

02:32:56,175 --> 02:33:00,915

becomes, you know, part, part of the,

uh, privilege of having, uh, been around

 

3306

02:33:01,070 --> 02:33:02,895

a, a few swings of the merry-go-round.

 

3307

02:33:03,505 --> 02:33:06,835

You know that I was thinking about that

the other day, that, you know, when, you

 

3308

02:33:06,835 --> 02:33:09,775

know you've lived long enough that some

people didn't make the full journey.

 

3309

02:33:09,775 --> 02:33:12,835

They departed early, you know, and,

and here you are, you're still here.

 

3310

02:33:13,045 --> 02:33:16,285

Got a couple gray hairs, and now

it's like, okay, well now it's

 

3311

02:33:16,285 --> 02:33:17,635

like, okay, where's a young person?

 

3312

02:33:17,635 --> 02:33:21,805

Lemme pass this along, as you know,

you know, and my kids are like,

 

3313

02:33:21,805 --> 02:33:24,325

you know, sometimes I swear they

almost wanna pat me on my head and

 

3314

02:33:24,325 --> 02:33:25,525

go, oh, bless your heart daddy.

 

3315

02:33:25,735 --> 02:33:25,795

Okay.

 

3316

02:33:25,795 --> 02:33:26,155

Yeah.

 

3317

02:33:26,155 --> 02:33:26,905

They don't wanna listen.

 

3318

02:33:27,415 --> 02:33:30,625

But the, but the important stuff, when I

say, okay, I really want you to listen.

 

3319

02:33:30,625 --> 02:33:33,550

I, I want to have those moments when

I know they're dialed in, you know?

 

3320

02:33:33,550 --> 02:33:33,830

Yeah.

 

3321

02:33:33,830 --> 02:33:34,870

It's like here, what I'm saying.

 

3322

02:33:34,930 --> 02:33:37,405

And the, the way to do

that is through story.

 

3323

02:33:37,615 --> 02:33:37,795

Mm-hmm.

 

3324

02:33:38,665 --> 02:33:38,755

Yes.

 

3325

02:33:38,755 --> 02:33:38,765

Yes.

 

3326

02:33:38,785 --> 02:33:43,975

And it's through compelling, uh, you know,

if things that we can create, I think

 

3327

02:33:43,975 --> 02:33:49,075

through the art that you, the work that

you do and that I do, we can, we can, uh.

 

3328

02:33:50,260 --> 02:33:54,255

Uh, we can add something to the

conversation that needs to be added.

 

3329

02:33:54,600 --> 02:33:55,965

A a hundred percent agree.

 

3330

02:33:56,025 --> 02:33:59,415

Uh, that brings me kind of to the next

question, which is, if you weren't

 

3331

02:33:59,415 --> 02:34:02,655

doing this, if, if they said, you

know, Thomas, man, the acting thing,

 

3332

02:34:02,655 --> 02:34:07,095

theater, all that, it is just not, it's

just not available to you, what right.

 

3333

02:34:07,095 --> 02:34:07,875

Would be your number two?

 

3334

02:34:07,875 --> 02:34:10,665

What would be the vocation

that you feeld bring your joy?

 

3335

02:34:10,960 --> 02:34:11,440

A writer.

 

3336

02:34:11,770 --> 02:34:12,310

Absolutely.

 

3337

02:34:12,310 --> 02:34:14,890

I absolutely, I've

thought I really love it.

 

3338

02:34:14,890 --> 02:34:17,440

It's taken me years to get any good at it.

 

3339

02:34:17,590 --> 02:34:20,740

Um, like everything, it

just takes time, you know?

 

3340

02:34:20,740 --> 02:34:22,330

And it takes work.

 

3341

02:34:22,390 --> 02:34:28,630

You know, I've been writing for,

uh, 10 years and nothing has come

 

3342

02:34:28,630 --> 02:34:32,650

out that I've would ever want

share with anybody until now.

 

3343

02:34:33,220 --> 02:34:38,050

So I've finally, you know, learned

how to string words together to form a

 

3344

02:34:38,050 --> 02:34:43,270

sentence that make a paragraph that then,

then, you know, can, can make a chapter.

 

3345

02:34:43,315 --> 02:34:47,650

I, I figured that that's no easy task

and I've figured out how to do that.

 

3346

02:34:48,280 --> 02:34:53,170

Um, and I really, you know, now

deeply appreciate more than ever,

 

3347

02:34:53,170 --> 02:34:56,830

I've always been a reader, but now I

deeply appreciate the craft and art of

 

3348

02:34:56,830 --> 02:34:58,330

writing, and that's what I'm into now.

 

3349

02:34:58,390 --> 02:34:59,380

It's kinda like acting.

 

3350

02:34:59,380 --> 02:35:01,030

It's all about the choices you make.

 

3351

02:35:01,060 --> 02:35:05,050

Uh, you know, 'cause I mean, for me, I

would run into an issue of so much I'd

 

3352

02:35:05,050 --> 02:35:09,250

wanna put on paper that, you know, even

when I, when I have to do something, write

 

3353

02:35:09,250 --> 02:35:12,760

something which is more extensive, I'm

like, oh God, I gotta shorten this up.

 

3354

02:35:12,760 --> 02:35:16,510

You know, the, the hard, that's

the hard part is making it shorter.

 

3355

02:35:16,510 --> 02:35:18,250

The hardest part of writing.

 

3356

02:35:18,495 --> 02:35:19,545

Is making it short.

 

3357

02:35:19,605 --> 02:35:19,965

Mm-hmm.

 

3358

02:35:20,205 --> 02:35:23,535

Like say what you wanna say with

as few words as possible and

 

3359

02:35:23,535 --> 02:35:27,105

as simple ideas as you possibly

can in a way that's not boring.

 

3360

02:35:27,765 --> 02:35:30,135

Um, takes a lot of work.

 

3361

02:35:30,525 --> 02:35:30,675

Yeah.

 

3362

02:35:30,735 --> 02:35:31,635

I, I'm one of those people.

 

3363

02:35:31,635 --> 02:35:34,845

I do a brain dump and then I just

kind of clean it up from there.

 

3364

02:35:34,875 --> 02:35:35,440

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

3365

02:35:35,655 --> 02:35:36,315

You gotta do that.

 

3366

02:35:36,525 --> 02:35:39,225

Let's, what Hemingway said, he

said, you know, I write a hundred

 

3367

02:35:39,225 --> 02:35:40,160

pages to get one good one.

 

3368

02:35:41,220 --> 02:35:42,270

Yeah, I, I think you ought to do it.

 

3369

02:35:42,270 --> 02:35:45,240

'cause if you're, if you're throttling

or filtering yourself, you're, you're

 

3370

02:35:45,240 --> 02:35:46,950

not, you're maybe holding something back.

 

3371

02:35:46,950 --> 02:35:47,610

It needs to get out.

 

3372

02:35:47,610 --> 02:35:50,130

Like, oh yeah, okay, now I can

take this somewhere, you know?

 

3373

02:35:50,400 --> 02:35:50,670

Right.

 

3374

02:35:50,790 --> 02:35:52,350

Drunk edit sober.

 

3375

02:35:52,465 --> 02:35:54,480

I, I write sober and edit sober.

 

3376

02:35:54,480 --> 02:35:59,040

But, but that's the general, you know,

you can get into the spirit of that

 

3377

02:35:59,040 --> 02:36:01,140

without an actual bottle of alcohol.

 

3378

02:36:01,350 --> 02:36:05,880

You, you can, you can

write freely and then edit.

 

3379

02:36:06,150 --> 02:36:11,250

Um, concise ruthlessly Well, as a

writer, just one, one question on that

 

3380

02:36:11,250 --> 02:36:13,320

is, if you said what inspires you?

 

3381

02:36:13,320 --> 02:36:15,270

What, what lights the fuse for you?

 

3382

02:36:15,270 --> 02:36:20,910

Usually song or a relationship or what,

what kind of are, are watching something,

 

3383

02:36:20,910 --> 02:36:22,950

what usually fires that up for you?

 

3384

02:36:23,480 --> 02:36:28,820

Well, I mean, right now it's the research,

you know, it's, uh, right now I get

 

3385

02:36:28,820 --> 02:36:34,190

fired up when I discover and put a new

connection together between two pieces

 

3386

02:36:34,190 --> 02:36:40,910

of information that I've learned through

the research I'm doing about, um, uh,

 

3387

02:36:40,940 --> 02:36:47,570

visiting aliens or UFOs or the government

interaction with those things or personal

 

3388

02:36:47,570 --> 02:36:49,910

experiences that people have had.

 

3389

02:36:49,910 --> 02:36:54,440

We have a fan, beautiful thing about

the internet, and the reason why

 

3390

02:36:54,440 --> 02:36:59,810

this is bubbling to the surface of

society now is because we've collected

 

3391

02:36:59,810 --> 02:37:03,080

stories over decades since the 1940s.

 

3392

02:37:03,080 --> 02:37:08,570

We've had stories not just of lights in

the sky, not just of structured craft, but

 

3393

02:37:08,570 --> 02:37:13,460

actual interactions with alien beings and.

 

3394

02:37:14,305 --> 02:37:17,395

What you don't know until you

actually look is that we have

 

3395

02:37:17,395 --> 02:37:22,975

thousands and thousands of these

encounters that have been recorded

 

3396

02:37:23,065 --> 02:37:26,005

by dutiful, uh, ufologists mm-hmm.

 

3397

02:37:26,545 --> 02:37:30,295

Over the years, who on their own

dime would go and find these people

 

3398

02:37:30,295 --> 02:37:36,625

and interview them and suss them out

and, and give us the details so that

 

3399

02:37:36,625 --> 02:37:40,885

now we have the technology where

we can put all these stories in one

 

3400

02:37:40,885 --> 02:37:44,425

place and create kind of a database.

 

3401

02:37:44,455 --> 02:37:46,555

You know, we, we don't

have an actual data.

 

3402

02:37:46,560 --> 02:37:50,185

We, we have databases for a

sightings, but what we don't have is

 

3403

02:37:50,185 --> 02:37:54,025

an actual database for encounters,

alien encounters where you kind of

 

3404

02:37:54,025 --> 02:37:56,935

connect all the dots and go, because

there is, I was watching something.

 

3405

02:37:56,935 --> 02:37:58,315

There is similarities.

 

3406

02:37:58,315 --> 02:37:59,575

I mean, for stuff that's even.

 

3407

02:37:59,910 --> 02:38:01,170

Around the other side of the world.

 

3408

02:38:01,170 --> 02:38:03,030

You know, there, there are

certain things which are common.

 

3409

02:38:03,030 --> 02:38:07,350

We have similarities between the beings

in some ca the other thing people

 

3410

02:38:07,350 --> 02:38:12,420

don't realize is how many different

species people report encountering.

 

3411

02:38:12,570 --> 02:38:16,920

You know, we think it's like the

one big eye gray alien, uh, or,

 

3412

02:38:16,980 --> 02:38:18,660

you know, maybe a praying mantis.

 

3413

02:38:18,780 --> 02:38:20,280

Insects like alien.

 

3414

02:38:20,340 --> 02:38:25,860

There's a handful, but there's actually

hundreds, which is bizarre and nobody has

 

3415

02:38:25,860 --> 02:38:27,660

been able to wrap their mind around that.

 

3416

02:38:28,140 --> 02:38:31,530

But I would love to create a

database of alien encounters.

 

3417

02:38:31,590 --> 02:38:36,570

Um, but what we do have is I've got a

database in my head, and when I, and

 

3418

02:38:36,570 --> 02:38:41,250

when I discover new, new facts and

I, we can put the start to put the

 

3419

02:38:41,250 --> 02:38:45,300

pieces together in, in new ways that

we just didn't have access to before.

 

3420

02:38:45,420 --> 02:38:47,580

You know, I saw Michu Kaku, uh.

 

3421

02:38:47,660 --> 02:38:51,470

The, the theoretical physicist

talking about this three I Atlas

 

3422

02:38:51,475 --> 02:38:52,940

have, have you been following this?

 

3423

02:38:52,940 --> 02:38:53,120

Mm-hmm.

 

3424

02:38:53,390 --> 02:38:54,920

That it's a little bit, yeah.

 

3425

02:38:54,920 --> 02:38:56,300

It's, it's really kind of intriguing.

 

3426

02:38:56,300 --> 02:39:02,510

Just, uh, you know, it's just for like how

random this is and how, uh, in terms I'm

 

3427

02:39:02,510 --> 02:39:05,570

no expert on physics, you know, but Right.

 

3428

02:39:05,750 --> 02:39:10,190

But how many things about it are not

adding up to our understanding of

 

3429

02:39:10,190 --> 02:39:11,720

physics, which is really interesting.

 

3430

02:39:11,720 --> 02:39:12,170

Yeah.

 

3431

02:39:12,170 --> 02:39:14,360

So at the very least, we're

gonna learn a hell of a lot.

 

3432

02:39:14,360 --> 02:39:20,450

We've only just gotten the, uh, capability

to look for objects that come from inters

 

3433

02:39:20,450 --> 02:39:23,720

that are interstellar, that aren't,

that aren't part of our solar system.

 

3434

02:39:23,720 --> 02:39:26,785

Just like in the last 10 years I

think is when that thing came online

 

3435

02:39:26,785 --> 02:39:29,330

and now we're starting to find them,

you know, and I think we don't know

 

3436

02:39:29,330 --> 02:39:34,070

how many we've missed, you know,

uh, before we had this capability.

 

3437

02:39:34,310 --> 02:39:35,810

So we are not really sure.

 

3438

02:39:36,485 --> 02:39:42,845

What constitutes super unusual because

we're just now, you know, um, gathering

 

3439

02:39:42,845 --> 02:39:48,365

the data, but three Alis is certainly

unusual and definitely worth, uh,

 

3440

02:39:48,425 --> 02:39:52,745

following up on Avi Loeb seems to

think it's a, in, you know, it's

 

3441

02:39:52,745 --> 02:39:54,605

the size of Manhattan, first of all.

 

3442

02:39:54,605 --> 02:39:54,665

Yeah.

 

3443

02:39:54,670 --> 02:39:59,230

Which is not impossible for with

an alien technology, but, but, um.

 

3444

02:40:00,980 --> 02:40:06,800

I think that it's good to raise

awareness of, uh, of the situation.

 

3445

02:40:06,800 --> 02:40:10,370

I don't think three I Atlas is

gonna turn out to be a spaceship.

 

3446

02:40:10,550 --> 02:40:13,100

Maybe I'll be wrong and

that would be insane.

 

3447

02:40:13,310 --> 02:40:14,120

That would be so cool.

 

3448

02:40:14,120 --> 02:40:17,960

It would be such a nice distraction from

all the other ship dealing right now.

 

3449

02:40:17,960 --> 02:40:18,230

You know?

 

3450

02:40:18,230 --> 02:40:19,370

I mean, it's just like.

 

3451

02:40:19,765 --> 02:40:22,495

Uh, an alien encounter, I

think would be just the reset

 

3452

02:40:22,495 --> 02:40:24,685

button we need, but, uh, yeah.

 

3453

02:40:24,985 --> 02:40:25,470

Right, right.

 

3454

02:40:25,585 --> 02:40:26,485

If we can handle it.

 

3455

02:40:26,630 --> 02:40:26,830

Yeah.

 

3456

02:40:26,935 --> 02:40:29,905

But no, I, I think that there

is a, uh, it, it, it gets

 

3457

02:40:29,905 --> 02:40:31,585

the philosophical side going.

 

3458

02:40:31,585 --> 02:40:33,805

It just, that kinda stuff

is cool to groove on.

 

3459

02:40:33,805 --> 02:40:37,705

Just like, what if, and you know,

what, you know, how would we pro now

 

3460

02:40:37,735 --> 02:40:42,145

my philosophy is if there's stuff out

there is, if there's information that's

 

3461

02:40:42,145 --> 02:40:43,495

not being, just put it all out there.

 

3462

02:40:43,495 --> 02:40:46,195

I think, I think humans

can handle all of it.

 

3463

02:40:46,315 --> 02:40:46,405

Mm-hmm.

 

3464

02:40:46,405 --> 02:40:50,065

And it's not gonna fundamentally change

the way they operate day to day, you know?

 

3465

02:40:50,395 --> 02:40:53,335

But it, it's, uh, yeah, you still

have to go to work, you know, it's

 

3466

02:40:53,335 --> 02:40:56,950

like quantum physics, you know, you

discover the, everything's quantum

 

3467

02:40:56,950 --> 02:41:02,485

and the ob the observer is integral to

the, uh, double split slit experiment.

 

3468

02:41:02,485 --> 02:41:06,190

But, you know, and you still have

to sort of brush your teeth, eat

 

3469

02:41:06,190 --> 02:41:09,775

dinner, you know, uh, I don't know

what the psychological, uh, philosophy

 

3470

02:41:09,775 --> 02:41:15,175

is on it, but there's so much, um,

stuff that we consume that comes in.

 

3471

02:41:15,175 --> 02:41:17,185

And I think we were not programmed.

 

3472

02:41:17,890 --> 02:41:19,510

I think we were meant to live in a tribe.

 

3473

02:41:19,870 --> 02:41:20,740

Uh, and that's right.

 

3474

02:41:20,740 --> 02:41:23,770

We take, we under, we have a,

a awareness of maybe a hundred

 

3475

02:41:23,770 --> 02:41:24,940

people around us and like that.

 

3476

02:41:25,240 --> 02:41:27,280

But now, that's, now it's like

I have to put my phone down.

 

3477

02:41:27,280 --> 02:41:31,120

There's just too much news, too much,

and it kind of pushes outta the way

 

3478

02:41:31,180 --> 02:41:33,730

how much time I want to dedicate

to things that do interest me.

 

3479

02:41:33,735 --> 02:41:33,905

Yeah.

 

3480

02:41:34,965 --> 02:41:41,380

And um, and it's also a system that can

be monopolized for purposes of control.

 

3481

02:41:41,470 --> 02:41:41,650

Uh, yeah.

 

3482

02:41:41,680 --> 02:41:45,100

So we all have to be aware of that,

what they call flooding the zone is

 

3483

02:41:45,100 --> 02:41:46,510

the phrase you're using these days.

 

3484

02:41:46,510 --> 02:41:46,810

Yeah.

 

3485

02:41:47,050 --> 02:41:50,170

Well, last question I got is, if

you're to jump into DeLorean, you go

 

3486

02:41:50,170 --> 02:41:54,160

back to when you're, uh, 16, you got

that piece of advice, wisdom to try.

 

3487

02:41:54,160 --> 02:41:56,050

You only got a couple

minutes with you at 16.

 

3488

02:41:56,440 --> 02:42:01,900

What are you telling yourself to make

that moment a little bit better or set

 

3489

02:42:01,900 --> 02:42:03,220

yourself in a little bit different path?

 

3490

02:42:03,400 --> 02:42:05,620

What advice would you have

for yourself back then?

 

3491

02:42:06,610 --> 02:42:08,410

I would just say trust yourself.

 

3492

02:42:08,440 --> 02:42:11,890

Uh, more, you know, just

trust what you wanna do.

 

3493

02:42:11,920 --> 02:42:13,000

Trust yourself.

 

3494

02:42:13,060 --> 02:42:15,250

Um, I, uh.

 

3495

02:42:16,110 --> 02:42:23,945

I, I, I wasn't aware of, uh, the

gifts that I had, that I have and had.

 

3496

02:42:24,095 --> 02:42:31,835

Um, uh, when you're immersed in, uh,

your personal experience, you're just

 

3497

02:42:31,835 --> 02:42:39,635

not, you're not, you're not awake to

sort of, um, the, uh, uh, the tapestry

 

3498

02:42:39,635 --> 02:42:42,005

that you're a part of and getting older.

 

3499

02:42:42,005 --> 02:42:45,935

You can sort of begin to, to see some

of the tapestry that you're a part

 

3500

02:42:45,935 --> 02:42:47,015

of, and you're like, you know what?

 

3501

02:42:47,315 --> 02:42:49,265

You know, you have a, you have a purpose.

 

3502

02:42:49,265 --> 02:42:50,285

You have a reason to be here.

 

3503

02:42:50,285 --> 02:42:51,515

You have something to offer.

 

3504

02:42:51,935 --> 02:42:54,575

Uh, you're good at stuff

that other people aren't.

 

3505

02:42:55,265 --> 02:42:56,555

Um, so trust that.

 

3506

02:42:56,735 --> 02:42:57,425

Trust it.

 

3507

02:42:57,695 --> 02:42:57,755

Yeah.

 

3508

02:42:57,755 --> 02:43:01,475

Do you have an ETA when you would

like your book to, to come out?

 

3509

02:43:01,475 --> 02:43:05,405

I'm definitely finishing it before the end

of the year, so it'll be out next year.

 

3510

02:43:05,405 --> 02:43:09,035

I want to get it out as soon as possible

because, you know, six months go by

 

3511

02:43:09,035 --> 02:43:10,745

and the damn book will be outta date.

 

3512

02:43:11,285 --> 02:43:11,555

Mm-hmm.

 

3513

02:43:11,795 --> 02:43:15,605

Uh, with the pace of things

that are happening in the world.

 

3514

02:43:15,635 --> 02:43:20,255

But it's called a Human's Guide

to Visiting Aliens and, uh.

 

3515

02:43:20,630 --> 02:43:23,450

I'm gonna get it out,

uh, sooner than later.

 

3516

02:43:23,540 --> 02:43:26,270

Well, Tom, Matt, I really appreciate

you sharing some time with me today.

 

3517

02:43:26,330 --> 02:43:27,200

Uh, it means a lot.

 

3518

02:43:27,380 --> 02:43:27,950

Great dog on it.

 

3519

02:43:27,950 --> 02:43:30,230

This is, uh, this is

always a lot of fun for me.

 

3520

02:43:30,410 --> 02:43:31,280

I had a good time.

 

3521

02:43:33,050 --> 02:43:33,440

Alright.

 

3522

02:43:33,440 --> 02:43:33,920

There you go.

 

3523

02:43:33,920 --> 02:43:37,610

Thomas Jane, uh, enjoyed

our sit down hour.

 

3524

02:43:37,880 --> 02:43:39,620

Little session of talking story.

 

3525

02:43:39,620 --> 02:43:43,550

Uh, just a cool guy, uh, really

enjoyed the opportunity to, uh, just

 

3526

02:43:43,550 --> 02:43:45,290

kind of connect, uh, the new film.

 

3527

02:43:45,290 --> 02:43:46,190

Make sure to check him out.

 

3528

02:43:46,190 --> 02:43:47,480

Amazon Prime video.

 

3529

02:43:47,480 --> 02:43:49,190

It is called Play Dirty.

 

3530

02:43:49,250 --> 02:43:52,910

Coming back together with His Boogie

Knights CoStar, Marc Wahlberg for

 

3531

02:43:52,910 --> 02:43:54,560

this, uh, this, this new film.

 

3532

02:43:54,920 --> 02:43:57,200

And, uh, check out out the

rest of his body of work.

 

3533

02:43:57,200 --> 02:43:59,900

I'm going through Troppo

right now on Prime Video.

 

3534

02:44:00,200 --> 02:44:01,370

Uh, really enjoying that.

 

3535

02:44:01,370 --> 02:44:05,660

So, uh, Thomas Jane, uh, really

enjoyed the opportunity to, uh,

 

3536

02:44:05,690 --> 02:44:07,370

sit down and talk story with him.

 

3537

02:44:07,690 --> 02:44:08,650

And, uh, do me a favor.

 

3538

02:44:08,650 --> 02:44:12,760

If you would just make sure

to like story and craft on

 

3539

02:44:12,760 --> 02:44:14,320

your podcast listening device.

 

3540

02:44:14,320 --> 02:44:18,130

Follow the show, get notifications

every time a new episode comes out, uh,

 

3541

02:44:18,130 --> 02:44:22,240

and just, uh, you know, leave stars,

thumbs up and all that good jazz.

 

3542

02:44:22,300 --> 02:44:25,600

You know, whatever you gotta

do helps people find story and

 

3543

02:44:25,600 --> 02:44:27,490

craft, which I appreciate greatly.

 

3544

02:44:27,490 --> 02:44:31,510

Also, if you go to

story and craft pod.com.

 

3545

02:44:31,830 --> 02:44:34,770

Everything about the show

is right there, past guests.

 

3546

02:44:34,770 --> 02:44:36,000

You can even shoot me a note.

 

3547

02:44:36,330 --> 02:44:37,410

It's just all right there.

 

3548

02:44:37,650 --> 02:44:38,100

Uh, okay.

 

3549

02:44:38,100 --> 02:44:42,630

So as I always say, thank you so very much

for making, uh, whatever I've got going

 

3550

02:44:42,630 --> 02:44:44,700

on here, part of what you've got going on.

 

3551

02:44:44,820 --> 02:44:45,960

It does mean a lot to me.

 

3552

02:44:45,990 --> 02:44:49,830

Uh, look forward to checking back

in with you, uh, here very shortly

 

3553

02:44:49,950 --> 02:44:55,110

for another great guests and chat

right here on Story and Craft.

 

3554

02:44:55,170 --> 02:44:57,900

That's it for this episode

of Story and Craft.

 

3555

02:44:57,960 --> 02:45:00,390

Join Marc next week for more conversation.

 

3556

02:45:00,600 --> 02:45:04,800

Right here on Story and Craft

Story and Craft is a presentation

 

3557

02:45:04,860 --> 02:45:06,870

of Marc Preston Production's, LLC.

 

3558

02:45:07,605 --> 02:45:12,825

Executive Producer is Marc Preston,

associate producer is Zachary Holden.

 

3559

02:45:13,125 --> 02:45:16,695

Please rate and review story

and craft on Apple Podcasts.

 

3560

02:45:16,725 --> 02:45:20,925

Don't forget to subscribe to the

show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

 

3561

02:45:21,045 --> 02:45:22,515

or your favorite podcast app.

 

3562

02:45:22,875 --> 02:45:25,815

You can subscribe to, show

updates, and stay in the know.

 

3563

02:45:25,965 --> 02:45:30,105

Just head to story and craft pod.com

and sign up for the newsletter.

 

3564

02:45:30,675 --> 02:45:31,575

I'm Emma Dylan.

 

3565

02:45:31,875 --> 02:45:32,775

See you next time.

 

3566

02:45:32,985 --> 02:45:35,385

And remember, keep telling your story.