Stuart Zicherman | The American Showrunner

Watching Stand By Me, I mean, it is a perfect movie.

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And like, it gets to the end

and I just, in tears in my eyes,

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like, I couldn't believe it.

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I looked over at my son, he

was like, yeah, that's good.

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I'm like, no, dude, that was great.

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You know?

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Announcer: Welcome to Story Craft.

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Now, here's your host, Marc Preston.

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Marc Preston: All right, here we

go, another episode of Story Craft.

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Welcome.

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How are you?

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I'm Marc Preston.

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If this is your very first stop by

the show, I want to welcome you.

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Thank you very much for

just checking it out.

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Today, sitting down with Stuart Zicherman.

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Now, Stuart's an executive producer.

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He is a showrunner, writer, director.

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He's done a lot of work.

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Projects over the years, you

may know of like Electra also

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did some writing on the show.

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The shrink next door with

Paul Rudd and Will Ferrell.

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He also did the Americans

on the FX network.

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The new project he's got out is

called American Sports Story about

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the football player Aaron Hernandez.

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It is currently on Hulu.

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Very talented guy when it comes

to just the Sheer breadth of work.

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He's done.

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Uh, like I said, he's producing, writing,

directing, very talented for sure.

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Now, if you would do me a favor, I

always ask this humble, this humble

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request is to pop on over to story

and craft pod forward slash rate.

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Do we say forward slash or just slash?

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Let me just do slash.

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Let's see how that sounds.

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Storyandcraftpod.

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com slash rate.

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Okay.

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That feels good.

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We'll, we'll do that.

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What you do there is just kind of

hop on over to your favorite podcast

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app and rate the episode, rate

the show, uh, followed the show.

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If you would, that way you get notified

every time we have a new episode and

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also leave a review, if you would drop a

little note, if you enjoyed the episode.

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Just pop a note in there.

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It says, Hey, cool stuff, little

emoji or whatever you want to

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do, whatever feels right for you.

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It's a little bit of love.

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I appreciate and gives a folks an

opportunity to discover story and craft.

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Also, the website, as I

mentioned, story and craft.

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Pod that's where you can find out

everything about the show who's been on

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past guests, of course Past episodes and

uh, you can also send me a note You can

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drop me a line if you would like leave a

voicemail you can do that also and just

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You know, it's a way for us to connect.

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All right, uh, let's go

and jump right into it.

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Today is Stuart Zicherman day

right here on Story and Craft.

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Where are you joining me from today?

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Stuart Zicherman: Uh, I'm in New York.

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I'm in Rye, New York.

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Marc Preston: Rye, New York.

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Where is that?

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It's just outside the city.

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I, uh, Jewish kid from Dallas and We

had a couple of good delis there, uh,

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but now I'm living on an island in South

Texas and, uh, not a deli for, uh, I

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don't, I think I'd have to drive to

Austin to find a decent deli, you know?

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So it's kind of a, my heart breaks

a little bit, so I'm very envious

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that you got easy access to

Katz's and all that kind of jazz.

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So, um, I'm glad we had

a chance to connect.

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I was taking a look and just kind of

cursory, you know, preparing, noticed,

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uh, the diversity of stuff you've done

is, there doesn't seem to be a kind of a

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common thread between the type of genre.

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So you're not really kind of locked

into doing documentary or whatever.

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Action type stuff.

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So what was like kind of

the beginning for you?

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Were you originally a writer or were

you originally a screenplay writer?

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And what was kind of the Genesis, uh, to

kind of gotcha where you are right now?

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Stuart Zicherman: Well, yeah, I

mean, um, I've always wanted to

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be a writer, you know, at the

beginning of your career, you're just

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trying to find a way in, you know?

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Um, and I, you know,

I was, uh, it's funny.

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I was, I got into film school at USC grad

school and, um, you know, I You know,

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it started to sort of get some writing

under my belt, you know, for school.

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But, um, uh, but when I graduated from

film school, I, I had no money and

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I, I really needed to figure out a

way to go, you know, make some money.

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So I, I got a job as a PA

on a movie in New York.

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Um, uh, I said originally I actually got

a job cause I knew how to work a video

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camera to work the video camera for the

casting department, but it was this big,

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big casting director named John Lyons.

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who um, had done a bunch

of the cone brother movies.

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And I was just so excited to be in

any room getting paid to do anything.

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You know, he was casting a new movie

called city hall and it was, uh, Al

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Pacino, John Cusack, Bridget Fonda

movie directed by Harold Becker.

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And so I'm in these casting sessions and,

and Harold Becker is like sitting there,

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you know, he's, he's just sitting there.

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When the casting was over, he's

like, you seem like a smart guy.

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You know, you should, uh, you should

be my assistant for the movie.

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So I ended up being his

assistant on this gigantic, like.

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You know, a hundred day

movie shoot in New York.

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And, um, the best part of being,

you know, being on a film set like

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that is all the people you meet.

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Um, you know, I didn't even know what all

people did in all the departments, you

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know, and you just, you just get to know

people and it turned out that, um, you

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know, on the set of this movie over, over

months and months, I got to know this guy.

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He was one of the, one of the

ADs and he had written a movie.

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And he's like, Oh, you

went to film school.

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Would you read my movie?

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And I was like, sure.

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And it was an action movie, you know, and

I was like, I gave him the disclaimer.

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I'm, I went to film school.

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I'm not looking to write.

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You know, actually, but I'll give

you notes, you know, um, I was

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so arrogant, you know, and I,

um, anyway, so I read his script.

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He'd written it with this other guy.

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You got

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Marc Preston: that arrogance of

only a freshly minted, uh, film

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school student can have, yeah,

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Stuart Zicherman: like bonehead, you know?

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And, um, but it turned out I gave

these guys notes and they really

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liked my notes and they said,

would you want to rewrite it?

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You know, uh, with us and if we

sell it and I'm like, yeah, sure.

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You know, we'll, we'll sell it, you

know, and it all seems so ridiculous.

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Um, but I did, I would, I would

PA for like 15 hours a day.

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And then at night I kind of rewrote

their movies, uh, their movie.

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It turned out that one of those

guys knew a guy who worked in

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the, at William Morris and they

sold the movie to Warner brothers.

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And so I went from being a PA

one day to being a, you know,

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and it was an action movie.

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And so like, and that was,

that was the movie that.

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you know, I made my first Marc on.

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And so like, from that day forward, I.

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It was an action movie writer, you

know, without really, it was my way

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in and, um, that movie never got made,

but from it, I got an agent and started

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writing, you know, you're writing that in

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Marc Preston: and of itself.

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It was its own lesson.

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It always blows my mind whenever I'm

speaking with folks and I take a look

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sometimes at their, you know, a quick

glance at their IMDb is how many seemingly

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really cool projects just were either

made and just never got released.

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Story, you know, how.

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There's some stumble in the process.

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Yeah.

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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No, I mean, I worked on action movies for

the next 10 years, you know, um, and I

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think two of them got made and one of them

I got credit on and, but it's, it was,

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at the time it was a very funny thing.

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It's probably still this way, but, um,

you know, it's a, the action movie world

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was like, you, you, you pitch an idea,

you know, and, and you write a movie

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and then you get rewritten and maybe you

get brought back or you get hired on a

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different movie to rewrite, you know.

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I worked on a small piece of Rush Hour 2.

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You know, I worked on, like, I worked

on all these different things, but

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it was a cool experience and, um, and

you really, over time, start to figure

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out what you really want to write.

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Marc Preston: When you, uh, you decided

to go off to film school, what was the

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original plan where you're like, okay, I'm

going to be, uh, I'm going to be a writer,

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director, I'm going to be a producer.

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Executive producer.

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What was there originally

a plan as a freshman?

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What your game plan was?

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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I mean, I, I got into college.

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I was a classics major.

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I was an English major and I, um, I

loved drama and I loved, um, stories.

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And, and so when I applied to

film school, my hope was just to

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sort of learn something about it.

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I didn't come from a family

or a world where anybody had

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any connections to that world.

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I just loved.

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I love movies and TV, you know, and

I, I, um, so my hope was just, yeah,

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I want to be a writer director, but

what was great about, you know, the

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graduate program at USC is they, they

teach you everything, you know, you

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learn about sound, you learn about

cinematography, you learn about all the

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different elements of, you know, sound.

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And, um, you know, it was,

it was just for somebody who

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didn't know anything about it.

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Um, it was just a great

learning experience.

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Marc Preston: Well, you mentioned,

uh, you were, you know, nobody

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in your family was doing this.

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What, what were your folks up to?

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What was their, uh,

what was their vocation?

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I'm assuming, by the way, you, you,

uh, did you grow up in New York or

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is that where you're originally from?

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

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And, um, Yeah, my mom was a teacher on

Long Island, um, a grade school teacher.

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And my dad worked, uh, as a stockbroker

and, and, um, you know, to their

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credit, they were always like, well,

you know, you know, it's a business

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where one in a million make it.

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And they were up to their credit.

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They were always like, Somebody's

got to be the one, you know,

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so I always believed like

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Marc Preston: that.

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That's, that's a rarity, you know,

usually a parent, there's always that

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inclination to like, you don't want them

to hurt themselves or go down a path.

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That's going to be negative.

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You know, somebody has got to

do that was my mentality when I

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got into doing stuff like this.

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It's like, well, somebody has

got to do it, you know, so no

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inclination to, uh, go into, uh,

uh, stock brokerage, uh, brokerage.

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I can, I talk for a living.

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I know it's hard to believe there

was no inclination to do that at all.

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Stuart Zicherman: No, um, I'm not.

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No finance was not my, uh, my jam.

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It's funny, you know, for years,

like, you know, like you were

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saying before, you know, especially

in the movie business, you write

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movies and things don't get made.

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So for years I was working, writing

movies, making a living, you know,

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and, you know, I don't think my dad,

you know, my dad worked in finance.

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He understood like, yeah, Paychecks,

you know, like, um, like I couldn't ever

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show anybody, nothing ever got made.

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So like, they were like,

what are you really doing?

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You know,

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Marc Preston: But you can say, you

know, stockbroker, you're, you can say

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your job's very speculative as well.

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You know, when you think about it.

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, it is.

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Marc Preston: So when you're growing

up though, uh, of course you want to go

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and you said you love movies and were

you like just movies in general or did

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you really like going to the theater?

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Was the actual theatrical experience, was

that like a big thing for you or you just

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didn't care if you know, TV, theater?

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Stuart Zicherman: I loved,

I loved going to the movies.

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I mean, I loved it, loved it.

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You know, my parents were divorced and

like, you know, and I just, I felt like

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everything I learned about, there's a

sounds cliche, but everything I learned

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about the world was, you know, movies.

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I mean, I remember going

like with the colleges that.

225

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I thought that colleges were like where

everything looked like in Dead Poets

226

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Society, you know, um, even though that

was not even a college, it was a prep

227

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school, but, um, you know, um, so yeah,

I mean, I, I love going to the theater.

228

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I love the movie experience.

229

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I remember, you know, there's a lot of

movies you can, you can say to me, you

230

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know, like, oh, uh, Empire Strikes Back

or Princess Bride, or, you know, uh, and

231

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I can tell you, uh, The theater I was

at, you know, I remember the experience.

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Marc Preston: The movies kind of

became a timeline for you, like a

233

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little notches along the timeline

where you can say, well, no, this

234

00:10:59,904 --> 00:11:02,505

movie came out at, you know, a grade

you're in, what you were doing.

235

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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

236

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And it was such an event thing in your

life, you know, it was like, um, you

237

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knew when he was coming out more all

day weekend or summer, you know, it was,

238

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it was such a big part of our, because

obviously we didn't have, You know,

239

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we didn't have it in our homes yet.

240

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Yeah.

241

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I loved it.

242

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I loved it.

243

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I, uh,

244

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Marc Preston: did you have any brothers

or sisters that, uh, were you an only kid?

245

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Stuart Zicherman: I had a sister,

um, and I have a sister and, um,

246

00:11:26,135 --> 00:11:27,745

yeah, she wasn't, they didn't do it.

247

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It was mainly like a thing I do with

my friends and, you know, I loved it.

248

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I loved storytelling and I loved reading

and I loved, um, just loved storytelling.

249

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And it

250

00:11:36,845 --> 00:11:38,785

Marc Preston: was funny that what you

mentioned about Dead Poets Society,

251

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cause I thought, oh, that was cool.

252

00:11:40,155 --> 00:11:43,464

Small, uh, you know, uh,

college in Northeast.

253

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And then I got a little older.

254

00:11:44,165 --> 00:11:47,404

It's like, well, Van Wilder, that seems

like kind of a fun college experience

255

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also, you know, you know, what were the,

like those benchMarc movies or theatrical

256

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experiences that you can call back on

and go, okay, that was Mount Rushmore

257

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of movies that I just loved as a kid.

258

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Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean, you

know, there were a few, I mean, there

259

00:12:00,979 --> 00:12:06,230

was, you know, um, I love the princess

bride, you know, but I really loved,

260

00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:07,890

like, this is obscure and weird.

261

00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,870

There was a movie, uh, the eighties

called the killing fields that, um,

262

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I remember seeing, it's like, it's

263

00:12:13,930 --> 00:12:15,589

Marc Preston: about Cambodia or Vietnam.

264

00:12:15,589 --> 00:12:16,939

I think, um,

265

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Stuart Zicherman: and, um, remember

like, It just was so transported to this

266

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other world, this whole story I didn't

know anything about, you know, and, and

267

00:12:26,124 --> 00:12:29,535

the sort of growing up a Jewish kid on

Long Island, like, you know, about the

268

00:12:29,545 --> 00:12:33,324

Holocaust, but you didn't know there was

like a massacre of millions of civilians,

269

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like movies, this could take you to these

other places and these other stories.

270

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And, and I remember, um, You know,

after, um, seeing that movie, like

271

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I started a food drive at school

for like Cambodian refugees,

272

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cause I was so taken by the movie.

273

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I just remember, yeah,

I saw it multiple times.

274

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I just like, you know, there were

movies like that, that just really, um.

275

00:12:58,295 --> 00:13:00,844

Captivated me that the

drama of the storytelling,

276

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Marc Preston: but that's really, I guess

what kind of boils down to is, is the

277

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storytelling when you realize it's not

just, uh, you know, you were a certain

278

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age where everybody's watching the action

movies, you know, the diehard or whatever,

279

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nothing against that great Christmas

movie, but you know, when that was going

280

00:13:14,155 --> 00:13:18,280

on, Then you look at the more serious, for

lack of a better way of putting it, there

281

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are certain movies that kind of grab you.

282

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I remember when I was a kid, I think

the movie, the right stuff just kind

283

00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:26,130

of captivated me for some reason,

just a different tonality feeling.

284

00:13:26,139 --> 00:13:29,240

It was like, wait a minute, this was,

and I loved space stuff, you know?

285

00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,970

So now, you know, we were talking

to like the diversity of the things

286

00:13:33,010 --> 00:13:36,415

that you've definitely contributed to

different types of, you know, Stuff,

287

00:13:36,444 --> 00:13:40,464

but is there anything you'd like, you

know, we're moving in the documentary

288

00:13:40,464 --> 00:13:43,505

direction to where you're like, okay,

ultimately documentaries, that's the

289

00:13:43,505 --> 00:13:46,995

thing for me, that kind of storytelling

or was it like dramas or was there

290

00:13:46,995 --> 00:13:48,865

anything we were like, that's my jam.

291

00:13:48,954 --> 00:13:50,324

Stuart Zicherman: You

know, um, it's funny.

292

00:13:50,324 --> 00:13:53,834

So I started out writing these

action movies and, and, um, there

293

00:13:53,834 --> 00:13:57,005

was a certain type of action movie

that I loved from movies growing up.

294

00:13:57,005 --> 00:13:57,795

Like I loved.

295

00:13:58,195 --> 00:14:02,605

You know, the seventies, uh, thrillers

like marathon man and parallax view.

296

00:14:02,605 --> 00:14:07,004

And if I could write like action movies

set in that, you know, in that tone, I

297

00:14:07,005 --> 00:14:11,744

was, I was game to do that, but it's,

you know, it just wasn't like that.

298

00:14:11,744 --> 00:14:17,255

And every action movie I worked on,

um, it, it felt like it was being built

299

00:14:17,255 --> 00:14:23,225

by blocks, you know, um, and it just

didn't feel that creative and in between

300

00:14:23,225 --> 00:14:27,155

the paid jobs I had on, on action

movies, I would try to write romantic

301

00:14:27,155 --> 00:14:28,555

comedies, or I would try to write.

302

00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,509

little obscure movies that would be

sort of, you know, maybe a way for me

303

00:14:32,509 --> 00:14:34,099

to break out and do something different.

304

00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:41,090

But I remember, um, I did rewrites on

rush hour two, uh, the second of the rush

305

00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:45,885

hour movies, and, um, they were shooting

in Las Vegas and I remember It was really

306

00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:50,625

like the first time I worked on a big

set with big stars and, and I remember

307

00:14:50,635 --> 00:14:55,365

being on set in, in Las Vegas and, and,

um, just being in the middle of it, like,

308

00:14:55,554 --> 00:15:03,035

and, and Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker and

were so funny in person, like, and they

309

00:15:03,035 --> 00:15:08,395

were so, uh, and the improv and the, um,

and the way that they could just take

310

00:15:08,395 --> 00:15:11,055

like a couple of words that we wrote

and turn it into something different.

311

00:15:11,075 --> 00:15:13,865

Like I was like, I just

wanted to find my way.

312

00:15:14,555 --> 00:15:15,635

And it felt so human.

313

00:15:15,694 --> 00:15:18,935

I just wanted to find my way into

things that felt human, you know?

314

00:15:19,345 --> 00:15:24,985

And, um, and TV really gave me that

opportunity because, you know, um, in

315

00:15:24,985 --> 00:15:26,634

movies, things just didn't get made.

316

00:15:26,634 --> 00:15:30,595

And when I got the TV, I actually got

the TV initially through JJ Abrams.

317

00:15:30,705 --> 00:15:33,145

He produced my first pilot and, um,

318

00:15:33,525 --> 00:15:34,581

Marc Preston: Oh, which

one, which one was that?

319

00:15:34,581 --> 00:15:34,834

It was

320

00:15:34,835 --> 00:15:36,275

Stuart Zicherman: a pilot

called pros and cons.

321

00:15:36,275 --> 00:15:37,635

It didn't get picked up for series.

322

00:15:37,685 --> 00:15:38,175

Marc Preston: Oh, okay.

323

00:15:38,285 --> 00:15:41,135

Stuart Zicherman: Um, but it was

like a con man kind of thing.

324

00:15:41,135 --> 00:15:43,825

And I remember like Being on

set, you know, when you're the

325

00:15:43,825 --> 00:15:46,555

writer of a TV show, they, they

give you the keys to the kingdom.

326

00:15:46,565 --> 00:15:47,345

Like you're on set.

327

00:15:47,345 --> 00:15:49,759

You're, you're the one making

everything, you know, kind of happen.

328

00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:50,285

You have that

329

00:15:50,574 --> 00:15:51,935

Marc Preston: thing about TV

that's different than movies.

330

00:15:51,964 --> 00:15:54,674

Movies are director's medium,

but it seems like, uh, TV is more

331

00:15:54,674 --> 00:15:56,214

of a writer's medium, you know?

332

00:15:56,634 --> 00:15:57,185

Stuart Zicherman: Oh, it's totally.

333

00:15:57,665 --> 00:15:57,805

Yeah.

334

00:15:58,054 --> 00:15:59,884

No, it's, I mean, you're, the

writer is the showrunner and the

335

00:15:59,884 --> 00:16:02,045

showrunner is the boss, you know?

336

00:16:02,474 --> 00:16:04,235

And, um, I couldn't believe it.

337

00:16:04,444 --> 00:16:06,665

You know, I couldn't believe that you're

involved in casting and you're involved

338

00:16:06,665 --> 00:16:08,875

in, in, you're staying there on set.

339

00:16:09,410 --> 00:16:16,260

They say cut and the actors look to the

monitors and the director turns around

340

00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:17,730

and looks at you and like, are we good?

341

00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:19,579

And you're like, we're good.

342

00:16:19,610 --> 00:16:19,910

You know?

343

00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:25,640

And like, I, I just, it was so, and so

to me, I, um, I did, I never wanted to

344

00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,579

be like, I was sort of pigeonholed and

stuck in that, in that action movie

345

00:16:28,579 --> 00:16:29,959

thing at the beginning of my career.

346

00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:33,760

I really, once I got into TV and was

able to sort of write about people.

347

00:16:34,515 --> 00:16:36,574

and write about, you know, human stories.

348

00:16:36,594 --> 00:16:40,285

I just, whatever I did, I wanted to be

writing about that, you know, and it

349

00:16:40,285 --> 00:16:46,275

didn't matter if it was like an hour

long, you know, um, intense drama, like

350

00:16:46,275 --> 00:16:51,795

the Americans or, or Lights Out or,

or things like that, or like slightly

351

00:16:51,804 --> 00:16:53,774

more like, you know, lighter fare.

352

00:16:53,785 --> 00:16:57,795

Like this first show I did, uh, for

JJ was a show called Six Degrees.

353

00:16:58,245 --> 00:16:59,575

Um, it was on ABC.

354

00:16:59,575 --> 00:17:02,585

Um, You know, that had a big concept.

355

00:17:02,585 --> 00:17:03,605

It was about these people.

356

00:17:03,605 --> 00:17:07,585

And, and, um, and it didn't matter

like anywhere in my career, I went,

357

00:17:07,585 --> 00:17:09,825

like, there are things I'm just

interested in writing about, you know,

358

00:17:10,255 --> 00:17:13,315

Marc Preston: JJ Abrams is kind

of like big guns, I mean, a lost

359

00:17:13,755 --> 00:17:14,694

guy, it's kind of an example.

360

00:17:14,694 --> 00:17:18,474

It's about real human experiences

kind of shot through the lens of this.

361

00:17:18,755 --> 00:17:20,954

Kind of sci fi vibe, you know,

362

00:17:21,185 --> 00:17:22,025

Stuart Zicherman: he's the king of it.

363

00:17:22,025 --> 00:17:23,244

I mean, he's incredible at it.

364

00:17:23,315 --> 00:17:28,405

I mean, he really, you know, he, um,

really inspired me to like, you can, you

365

00:17:28,405 --> 00:17:33,425

can pitch and sell and write big ideas

that, but approach them character first.

366

00:17:33,635 --> 00:17:37,215

And he was able to do that, you know,

alias and lost and all those shows

367

00:17:37,215 --> 00:17:41,540

were just, you know, Um, Felicity, like

they were just all, his early TV shows

368

00:17:41,540 --> 00:17:43,760

were all like character for shows.

369

00:17:43,930 --> 00:17:48,880

And, um, so I've been really lucky in my

career, I mean, by not sort of sticking to

370

00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,399

one genre, I get invited to do different

things, you know, and, and I've been

371

00:17:54,399 --> 00:18:01,315

lucky enough to work on, you know, um, you

know, um, Half hours and comedies and, uh,

372

00:18:01,355 --> 00:18:03,425

things that have a lot more humor to them.

373

00:18:03,425 --> 00:18:07,145

And then really, really dark

dramas and, and spy thrillers.

374

00:18:07,165 --> 00:18:11,205

And I, I've just been able to sort of

move between all these different worlds,

375

00:18:11,205 --> 00:18:14,855

but with the sort of commonality of

like, at their core, they're, they're,

376

00:18:14,865 --> 00:18:16,185

they're about something very human.

377

00:18:16,794 --> 00:18:21,145

Marc Preston: Coming up with a story all

on your own, or do you like the challenge?

378

00:18:21,145 --> 00:18:24,685

Like when there is a existing story,

existing script, and they talk about

379

00:18:24,685 --> 00:18:28,105

their script doctors, you know, for

whatever reason, it's just not jelling.

380

00:18:28,114 --> 00:18:30,704

Do you like to kind of come in

there and kind of solve the puzzle?

381

00:18:30,705 --> 00:18:34,885

And do you prefer that, or do you prefer

coming up with something organically from

382

00:18:34,885 --> 00:18:36,965

scratch, or is there even a preference?

383

00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,970

Stuart Zicherman: Um, it's

not only a preference.

384

00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:40,420

There are two totally different things.

385

00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:42,980

You know, when you come into something

that already exists, it's like, it's easy

386

00:18:42,980 --> 00:18:45,550

to see it from the 10, 000 foot view.

387

00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:49,339

You know, you can see where the

problems are and, and, um, it

388

00:18:49,339 --> 00:18:51,710

doesn't feel like yours, you know?

389

00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:55,199

Um, so, I mean, I do

always like coming up with.

390

00:18:55,650 --> 00:18:59,730

Um, you know, my own stuff or stuff

that's inspired by something or, or

391

00:18:59,730 --> 00:19:05,139

inspired by a piece of history or

book or article or, um, a podcast,

392

00:19:05,209 --> 00:19:09,170

you know, um, cause then you can

make those things your own, you know,

393

00:19:09,339 --> 00:19:11,759

Marc Preston: I play around with

screenwriting just for, to me, it's

394

00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,120

kind of a cathartic, it's kind of fun.

395

00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,410

It's just to just fart around, open up

the software and, you know, fart around

396

00:19:17,410 --> 00:19:18,470

is a professional term by the way.

397

00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:19,329

I don't know if you'll agree with that.

398

00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,230

What is your favorite

book on screenwriting?

399

00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:24,429

I think I've read the ones

with the save the cat.

400

00:19:24,429 --> 00:19:27,790

I think I've, I've read a couple,

you know, but what is yours?

401

00:19:27,790 --> 00:19:32,350

Do you think that you mostly ascribe to is

like, okay, that's kind of the process I'm

402

00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:34,590

using for the most part, or is there one?

403

00:19:34,835 --> 00:19:35,875

Stuart Zicherman: Well,

there isn't really one.

404

00:19:35,875 --> 00:19:38,805

I mean, um, you know, the Sid

Field book was sort of the one

405

00:19:38,805 --> 00:19:40,335

that everyone learned on, right?

406

00:19:40,435 --> 00:19:42,315

Like with the three act

structure and all that.

407

00:19:42,534 --> 00:19:45,854

Um, I always really loved reading

anything by William Goldman.

408

00:19:46,394 --> 00:19:50,844

Um, you know, and, and because he

sort of espoused this thing that I've

409

00:19:50,984 --> 00:19:55,430

come to learn over the years, which

is like, The three act structure is

410

00:19:55,630 --> 00:20:01,290

innate in any good story, you know,

if you, you know, I always say like,

411

00:20:01,330 --> 00:20:03,490

you can sit at a dinner table, right?

412

00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:08,369

And watch someone tell a really

interesting story who's not a good

413

00:20:08,369 --> 00:20:09,930

storyteller and be very bored by it.

414

00:20:10,409 --> 00:20:13,724

Or you can watch someone who's a great

storyteller tell a not great story.

415

00:20:14,195 --> 00:20:18,745

Um, and just be completely enraptured

by it because some people just have

416

00:20:18,745 --> 00:20:22,004

an understanding of like structure.

417

00:20:22,415 --> 00:20:25,824

They know how to hit the beats and they

know how to, you know, when to move on

418

00:20:25,835 --> 00:20:27,975

and when to move on to the next thing

and not to get stuck in something.

419

00:20:27,975 --> 00:20:32,094

And that's always like William

Goldman just had an uncanny ability.

420

00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:32,950

To do that,

421

00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,060

Marc Preston: when you're putting

something together, when you're writing

422

00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:39,110

a screenplay, do you see in your

mind's eye, are you seeing it play out?

423

00:20:39,150 --> 00:20:43,269

Do you see, in other words, uh, like

even, even the physicality of the, of

424

00:20:43,269 --> 00:20:47,349

the actors or the, the, the, the, the

seat, the set, like, uh, like whenever

425

00:20:47,349 --> 00:20:49,399

I write something, I always seem

to be a little heavy on explaining.

426

00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:51,240

This is what it's looking like.

427

00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,500

This is going to be

aesthetic of it, if you will.

428

00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:56,950

Or do you, do you just focus just on

the words and the thought, you know,

429

00:20:57,010 --> 00:20:59,070

just, I know it's a very general

question, but I was just kind of

430

00:20:59,070 --> 00:20:59,879

Stuart Zicherman: curious.

431

00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:00,910

It's a good question.

432

00:21:00,975 --> 00:21:03,875

It's actually, um, I'll

answer that in two parts.

433

00:21:03,885 --> 00:21:05,975

One is the early part of my career.

434

00:21:06,385 --> 00:21:11,535

Um, I did kind of what you, what you're

talking about is I would overwrite things

435

00:21:11,545 --> 00:21:13,764

that I over describe things, right?

436

00:21:13,765 --> 00:21:16,444

I wanted the reader to really understand.

437

00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,860

What I was talking about, right?

438

00:21:19,209 --> 00:21:22,439

But as I've moved on my career,

you start making shows more.

439

00:21:22,439 --> 00:21:24,300

You start writing them to make them right.

440

00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:26,599

You start writing them thinking

you're going to make them.

441

00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:28,849

So it's like, it's about giving

the essence of something.

442

00:21:28,860 --> 00:21:31,409

You know, you're going to

end up finding location.

443

00:21:31,419 --> 00:21:32,520

You're going to end up looking.

444

00:21:32,909 --> 00:21:35,070

For locations, you know, you're

going to end up finding actors.

445

00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:40,219

So what I try to do now more is give

the essence of what I'm trying to say

446

00:21:40,239 --> 00:21:41,889

versus be super specific about it.

447

00:21:42,719 --> 00:21:47,089

Um, cause that essence, you know, it's,

it's important is eventually going

448

00:21:47,089 --> 00:21:50,609

to be a director and there's going to

be a location managers reading this.

449

00:21:50,895 --> 00:21:51,565

for locations.

450

00:21:51,565 --> 00:21:54,485

And there's going to be a, you

know, production designers reading

451

00:21:54,485 --> 00:21:57,225

it to try to figure out like what

the sets are going to look like.

452

00:21:57,225 --> 00:22:00,055

And like, even if it's super

specific, in my words, they're

453

00:22:00,075 --> 00:22:01,484

going to make it their own anyway.

454

00:22:02,064 --> 00:22:04,744

Marc Preston: A lot of chefs end up ending

up in the kitchen when a movie gets made.

455

00:22:04,745 --> 00:22:04,925

Yeah.

456

00:22:04,925 --> 00:22:05,495

Or a TV show.

457

00:22:05,495 --> 00:22:05,815

Yeah.

458

00:22:05,965 --> 00:22:09,445

And there was something I read once

to never cast it as you're writing it.

459

00:22:09,454 --> 00:22:11,745

To me, it's like, that

almost happens organically.

460

00:22:11,765 --> 00:22:15,050

Do you try to like, When you're

writing, do you have an actor in mind

461

00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:18,550

just as sort of a placeholder, for

lack of a better way of putting it?

462

00:22:18,570 --> 00:22:19,200

Does that make sense?

463

00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:20,390

Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, yeah.

464

00:22:20,670 --> 00:22:24,810

I always end up with like, sometimes

I'm writing for a specific actor, so

465

00:22:25,090 --> 00:22:28,750

that's different, but when I'm not

writing for a specific actor, I get like

466

00:22:29,309 --> 00:22:31,649

an image of the character in my head.

467

00:22:32,035 --> 00:22:36,215

It may not be like an actual person,

but it's sort of like, I just, it's

468

00:22:36,265 --> 00:22:40,425

this thing that I imagined in my head

and that's the character, that's their

469

00:22:40,425 --> 00:22:45,325

voice and they're kind of like their

shadow, you know, um, what's funny is

470

00:22:45,325 --> 00:22:49,774

that every single time, you know, I'm

done with something and it's going to

471

00:22:49,774 --> 00:22:52,275

go into production and we go to casting.

472

00:22:53,145 --> 00:22:57,855

Like the first week of casting is

always just so painful because you have

473

00:22:57,855 --> 00:23:01,814

all these actors reading the words on

tape or in front of you and casting.

474

00:23:01,814 --> 00:23:05,035

And you're like, it just doesn't

sound anything like you imagined.

475

00:23:06,025 --> 00:23:06,425

Marc Preston: Yeah.

476

00:23:06,795 --> 00:23:08,224

Stuart Zicherman: Um,

and then you see wild

477

00:23:08,224 --> 00:23:10,984

Marc Preston: interpretations of it going

a different lot of different directions.

478

00:23:10,985 --> 00:23:11,075

Yeah.

479

00:23:11,575 --> 00:23:15,375

Stuart Zicherman: Then after about a

week you start seeing it in the way that

480

00:23:15,405 --> 00:23:18,565

they're doing it, not in the way that

you remember doing it in your head for so

481

00:23:18,565 --> 00:23:19,824

Marc Preston: long.

482

00:23:19,905 --> 00:23:20,015

Stuart Zicherman: So.

483

00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:21,410

Yeah, it's a process.

484

00:23:21,670 --> 00:23:22,890

Marc Preston: Yeah, I remember

I was auditioning once.

485

00:23:22,890 --> 00:23:24,160

There was a callback I was with.

486

00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:25,240

It was for the TV show.

487

00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,120

Um, oh shit, I forgot.

488

00:23:27,140 --> 00:23:29,800

Um, it was, they shot it in New Orleans.

489

00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:33,100

Oh gosh, it was, uh, um,

the guy that did The Wire.

490

00:23:33,109 --> 00:23:34,580

They did the show based in New Orleans.

491

00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:35,189

Oh yeah.

492

00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:35,704

Tremé.

493

00:23:35,704 --> 00:23:38,515

Tremé, Tremé, why can't,

uh, Couldn't remember that.

494

00:23:38,515 --> 00:23:39,865

I lived down there for a long time.

495

00:23:39,985 --> 00:23:42,985

I was auditioning for, uh, Tim

Robbins was directing that episode

496

00:23:43,015 --> 00:23:45,725

and they had somebody from HBO

and they had the writer there.

497

00:23:45,945 --> 00:23:46,675

I was more nervous.

498

00:23:46,675 --> 00:23:48,375

The fact that writer is sitting up there.

499

00:23:48,405 --> 00:23:49,294

Cause those are his words.

500

00:23:49,295 --> 00:23:50,605

He wrote, they're looking at me.

501

00:23:50,605 --> 00:23:53,835

I'm like, I'm more concerned about

the expressions on the writer's face.

502

00:23:54,284 --> 00:23:58,364

I'm delivering the lines, you know,

cause this came from, that came from him.

503

00:23:58,374 --> 00:23:58,804

You know,

504

00:23:59,184 --> 00:24:02,165

Stuart Zicherman: I always say like,

what's amazing about the process, right.

505

00:24:02,165 --> 00:24:05,005

Of, of writing shows or movies.

506

00:24:05,015 --> 00:24:05,844

It's like, we.

507

00:24:06,325 --> 00:24:09,345

Writers, we start with

a blank screen, right?

508

00:24:09,345 --> 00:24:10,565

It's just, it's just us.

509

00:24:10,575 --> 00:24:12,855

It's our, it's just me in it, right?

510

00:24:13,185 --> 00:24:15,315

And for the whole time I'm writing

it, it's just the two of us.

511

00:24:15,675 --> 00:24:19,154

But what happens is like, the second

that you take it off your computer and

512

00:24:19,164 --> 00:24:23,134

start, like, you give it to a director,

then it becomes, the director is also,

513

00:24:23,155 --> 00:24:26,585

the director is going home at night and

And telling their husband or wife, right.

514

00:24:26,975 --> 00:24:30,275

Um, my, my new show is this right.

515

00:24:30,275 --> 00:24:31,945

And then you start making it.

516

00:24:31,955 --> 00:24:35,535

Now there's a whole crew and that

crew has given up, you know, 18

517

00:24:35,535 --> 00:24:36,945

hours a day to work on the set.

518

00:24:37,104 --> 00:24:40,300

And they're going home and say, my

new show is, you know, So by the

519

00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:43,850

time like you're done, the actors

and the crew and everybody, there's

520

00:24:43,889 --> 00:24:47,830

300 people who feel like it's their

show, no longer just your show.

521

00:24:47,949 --> 00:24:49,000

And I love that.

522

00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:49,989

Like, I love that.

523

00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:52,539

Marc Preston: I was about to say,

there's got to be such a source of pride

524

00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:56,100

that, you know, you created literally

something out of nothing, you know,

525

00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:57,799

and now, now there's budgets behind it.

526

00:24:57,799 --> 00:25:00,940

Now there are people putting food

on their table with is, it's one

527

00:25:00,940 --> 00:25:02,270

of those things I think writers.

528

00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,980

Uh, you know, when you start looking

at the order of the credits, me doing

529

00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:09,730

narration a lot and whenever I see

that the narrator on a documentary

530

00:25:09,730 --> 00:25:13,060

or a TV show comes as one of the last

credits, I'm like, that should be

531

00:25:13,060 --> 00:25:15,160

the first, you know, 'cause that's

who you're with the whole time.

532

00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,180

To me, I think the writer really,

it is their, it's their baby

533

00:25:19,180 --> 00:25:20,290

and everybody came after that.

534

00:25:20,290 --> 00:25:23,140

But that's just kind of my interpretation

of No, I think it's, you know,

535

00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:23,920

kinda like what you're saying.

536

00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,670

Stuart Zicherman: I think it's true.

537

00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,720

And, and it is.

538

00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,500

It is your baby.

539

00:25:26,975 --> 00:25:29,495

But it becomes a lot of

other people's babies.

540

00:25:30,675 --> 00:25:34,805

And then eventually, which is always

the hardest part is, you know, you give

541

00:25:34,805 --> 00:25:38,955

it out to the world and then it becomes

the world's show, you know, or movie.

542

00:25:39,334 --> 00:25:43,520

And, and so it's, it, in

reality, it's just, It just

543

00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:44,889

isn't yours anymore, you know?

544

00:25:44,889 --> 00:25:45,520

It was, yeah.

545

00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,370

Marc Preston: I just think it's so funny

that, you know, you look at a, a, a film,

546

00:25:48,399 --> 00:25:51,820

uh, and a lot of times you, you, you just,

now, if you're in the, in, in the industry

547

00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:54,879

and you're like, you probably know who

the writer is, you know, but usually it's

548

00:25:54,879 --> 00:25:59,770

the director or the big stars in it, and

the writer doesn't always get referenced.

549

00:25:59,770 --> 00:26:01,870

And I'm like, wait a minute, this

thing didn't exist without them.

550

00:26:01,870 --> 00:26:04,060

You know, that's, that's, you

know, they're kinda the quiet

551

00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:05,890

heroes, you know, of the Hollywood.

552

00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,130

If you look at your projects you've

done, is there anything you've done

553

00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:19,300

in particular that was close to you

or close to a personal experience?

554

00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:22,960

Uh, cause you mentioned you were, your

parents are divorced, but I thought the

555

00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,619

movie adult child of divorce was such a

fun kind of concept, but not just that.

556

00:26:27,619 --> 00:26:29,670

I just kind of saw that and I was

like, well, I was wondering, is there

557

00:26:29,670 --> 00:26:33,030

anything that really kind of took a

big chunk of your own personal life?

558

00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,700

And you put that into the script.

559

00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:35,880

Was there anything you've

ever done like that?

560

00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,270

Yeah.

561

00:26:36,290 --> 00:26:39,079

Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean,

obviously that, that movie ACOD was,

562

00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:41,385

um, It was about my parents divorce.

563

00:26:41,385 --> 00:26:45,905

I wanted to make something, um,

that was funny about divorce.

564

00:26:45,915 --> 00:26:50,284

You know, I'd grown up on all these very,

very serious divorce movies and obviously

565

00:26:50,284 --> 00:26:51,785

divorce is a very serious subject.

566

00:26:51,824 --> 00:26:52,024

Marc Preston: Yeah.

567

00:26:52,135 --> 00:26:53,414

Like Kramer versus Kramer.

568

00:26:53,414 --> 00:26:55,214

When I was a kid, I was like,

wow, this is heavy, man.

569

00:26:55,255 --> 00:26:55,455

Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.

570

00:26:55,864 --> 00:26:59,534

They tried to like make, make some light

out of it and War of the Roses and,

571

00:27:00,035 --> 00:27:04,085

um, you know, but there'd never really

been like a divorce comedy per se.

572

00:27:04,085 --> 00:27:08,620

And I, my parents got divorced when I

was a kid and I thought it was You know,

573

00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:14,070

it was sad and hard, but there were also

like moments of like insanity and levity.

574

00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:19,619

And, um, and so I just, yeah, I, I

wanted to write something that, um, my

575

00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:25,550

parents had, you know, there was a funny

situation in my parents divorce that I

576

00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:27,030

thought could make for a good comedy.

577

00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:32,030

So yeah, I mean, um, that was, that

was a very personal story, poured

578

00:27:32,030 --> 00:27:33,930

a lot of my own life into that.

579

00:27:35,225 --> 00:27:37,315

Marc Preston: Was your dad,

uh, was it Richard Jenkins?

580

00:27:37,315 --> 00:27:37,859

Okay.

581

00:27:37,859 --> 00:27:42,575

Was it, was it, was the casting

at all anywhere close to, uh,

582

00:27:42,665 --> 00:27:43,875

uh, to your, to your real folks?

583

00:27:43,895 --> 00:27:45,864

Stuart Zicherman: No, you know,

at a certain point you don't

584

00:27:45,864 --> 00:27:47,874

want to offend your parents, so

you don't want to get too close.

585

00:27:47,875 --> 00:27:53,695

Um, but you know, it also was a case

of, um, again, like these things

586

00:27:53,695 --> 00:27:57,695

always, it's funny, I find even in

the most personal things I've worked

587

00:27:57,695 --> 00:27:59,805

on, the Things I care about the most.

588

00:27:59,835 --> 00:28:02,065

Um, they feel closest to home.

589

00:28:02,085 --> 00:28:04,395

Like they take on a life

of their own, you know?

590

00:28:04,845 --> 00:28:08,004

Yeah, no, Richard Jenkins and my

dad have very little in common.

591

00:28:08,375 --> 00:28:12,014

Um, but Richard Jenkins

is a funny son of a gun,

592

00:28:12,105 --> 00:28:12,714

Marc Preston: you know?

593

00:28:13,074 --> 00:28:16,745

He's done so many wonderful things,

but when he played, uh, uh, something

594

00:28:16,754 --> 00:28:18,024

about Mary, he was a therapist.

595

00:28:19,805 --> 00:28:22,295

It was just so subtle and it wasn't

even a big part of the movie,

596

00:28:22,295 --> 00:28:25,845

but it was just like, Just so

random, uh, but anyway, I'm sorry.

597

00:28:25,845 --> 00:28:28,705

So I kind of miss those kind of

comedies, but in talking about things

598

00:28:28,705 --> 00:28:32,335

that are close or personal and then

things that are scripted and things

599

00:28:32,335 --> 00:28:34,144

that come from somewhere internal.

600

00:28:34,144 --> 00:28:38,304

And here you are stepping into something

with, uh, American sports story.

601

00:28:38,625 --> 00:28:39,975

That's nothing that you created.

602

00:28:40,005 --> 00:28:41,015

That's real life.

603

00:28:41,055 --> 00:28:42,345

I mean, what, what was that turn?

604

00:28:42,445 --> 00:28:43,665

That had been kind of itching at you.

605

00:28:43,665 --> 00:28:45,955

You're like, I want to do

something with this story.

606

00:28:46,225 --> 00:28:48,554

Stuart Zicherman: Well, you know,

I think the last bunch of years,

607

00:28:48,565 --> 00:28:51,934

I mean, everything I've worked

on last bunch of years has been

608

00:28:51,934 --> 00:28:54,085

based on some underlying material.

609

00:28:54,085 --> 00:28:56,144

I did sweet bitter, which

was based on a book.

610

00:28:56,665 --> 00:29:00,465

Um, you know, uh, the street next

door, which was based on a podcast.

611

00:29:00,955 --> 00:29:06,164

Um, you know, and then along came, you

know, uh, the Aaron Hernandez story.

612

00:29:06,495 --> 00:29:10,115

Which was based on the, the, the

spotlight team at the Boston Globe

613

00:29:10,125 --> 00:29:14,925

at these, this series of articles

about, um, the Hernandez story, which

614

00:29:14,965 --> 00:29:17,354

Marc Preston: as a sports fan,

I thought I really knew when

615

00:29:17,354 --> 00:29:18,305

they're a movie called spotlight.

616

00:29:18,905 --> 00:29:22,445

So is that the same edit,

uh, uh, investigative team?

617

00:29:22,905 --> 00:29:23,345

Oh, okay.

618

00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,340

Stuart Zicherman: So they did,

they did the priest, uh, the priest

619

00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:27,710

story that movie was made out of.

620

00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:31,900

Um, and the spotlight team is this

constantly sort of like revolving group

621

00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:36,049

of reporters at the globe that does

like deep dives into different stories.

622

00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:39,479

And they did this deep dive

into the Hernandez story, which.

623

00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:42,940

I think a lot of people, including

me, thought that they knew, right?

624

00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,900

Like I followed that

story when it happened.

625

00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:46,270

I'm a big sports fan.

626

00:29:46,270 --> 00:29:47,350

I thought I knew the story.

627

00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,979

It turned out, you know, the spotlight

team, you know, wrote about a lot of

628

00:29:52,999 --> 00:29:58,662

elements, the story that really changed

the narrative for me and, um, you know,

629

00:29:59,430 --> 00:30:03,260

When you ask about making it personal,

I think like you have to find a way

630

00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:05,220

as a writer, you have to find a way.

631

00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,340

into anything that you write,

any true story or anything that's

632

00:30:09,340 --> 00:30:10,860

based on someone else's story.

633

00:30:11,130 --> 00:30:14,129

You've got to find a way to

personally find your, you know, this

634

00:30:14,130 --> 00:30:18,490

was a funny one for me, a really

challenging one, you know, because,

635

00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:23,600

you know, it's about a murderer,

but also like a world class athlete.

636

00:30:24,685 --> 00:30:29,665

with a drug addiction, um, you know,

who, you know, is, is half Puerto

637

00:30:29,665 --> 00:30:34,535

Rican, half Italian, incredible

athlete, um, exploring a sexuality.

638

00:30:34,935 --> 00:30:41,354

I, you know, and none of those things,

um, including an athlete, but I, I

639

00:30:41,354 --> 00:30:46,151

did see in the story in, in, in, you

know, when I, when I, when I did, when

640

00:30:46,151 --> 00:30:50,925

I did my deep dive into the material,

I saw that there was like a really

641

00:30:51,345 --> 00:30:53,855

intense story about authenticity.

642

00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,850

About a person trying to find

Their authenticity and like

643

00:30:57,940 --> 00:31:00,460

figure out who they are and who

they're going to be in the world.

644

00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,210

And, and that was something

I, I could relate to.

645

00:31:03,210 --> 00:31:04,540

I thought other people could relate to.

646

00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:07,060

And that was my approach

to the, to the material.

647

00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:11,029

Marc Preston: Wasn't there a talk with

him that there was, uh, that he may

648

00:31:11,030 --> 00:31:16,530

have also had a CTE or brain injury that

may have been, or am I imagining that?

649

00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:17,150

I'm trying to remember.

650

00:31:17,710 --> 00:31:18,710

Stuart Zicherman: That's

a big part of the show.

651

00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:20,270

He, um, he died.

652

00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:26,550

He had the largest, um, Um, he

had the worst case of CTE, um,

653

00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,920

ever diagnosed in someone his age.

654

00:31:29,890 --> 00:31:32,240

Um, they can only

diagnose CTE after death.

655

00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,599

Um, and, um, unfortunately after he

committed suicide, you know, they

656

00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,939

did a, um, an autopsy of his brain

and they, they discovered that he

657

00:31:39,949 --> 00:31:42,800

had very, very severe, uh, CTE.

658

00:31:43,210 --> 00:31:46,590

Marc Preston: The, that Will Smith movie

he did, uh, which it's, it seems like

659

00:31:46,590 --> 00:31:48,600

there's still a discussion about it.

660

00:31:48,610 --> 00:31:52,290

In fact, my speaking with my son about a

few months ago and we're talking about,

661

00:31:52,309 --> 00:31:56,329

uh, that there is talk about, you know,

years down the road, will they be playing

662

00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:57,880

football the same way they are now?

663

00:31:58,270 --> 00:32:00,359

You look at some of these athletes

and you look at the way they're

664

00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:03,160

impaired later on, but you look

at this guy who's really young.

665

00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:03,610

Okay.

666

00:32:03,610 --> 00:32:07,160

They, then they're saying, okay, this

actually starts in high school or even

667

00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,434

before that, you know, it's not just

being hit, but they're playing football.

668

00:32:09,575 --> 00:32:13,135

Quick stops, you know, and, and factoring

all that in, you know, did you feel

669

00:32:13,135 --> 00:32:18,065

like extra responsibility because of,

uh, uh, you know, this, there, there

670

00:32:18,065 --> 00:32:20,985

are people still alive, there's family,

there's people out there in here.

671

00:32:20,985 --> 00:32:21,904

You are telling a story.

672

00:32:21,905 --> 00:32:25,054

Was it kind of, did you feel extra

pressure to kind of get this for

673

00:32:25,055 --> 00:32:26,045

lack of better way of putting it?

674

00:32:26,045 --> 00:32:28,845

There's no right or wrong, but you

know, to get it right, you know?

675

00:32:28,855 --> 00:32:29,165

Yeah,

676

00:32:29,215 --> 00:32:31,695

Stuart Zicherman: no, I, I felt

a ton of responsibility, you

677

00:32:31,695 --> 00:32:35,195

know, um, and the biggest thing,

most important thing to me was.

678

00:32:36,145 --> 00:32:38,715

To never forgive

Hernandez for what he did.

679

00:32:38,795 --> 00:32:40,745

You know, we're making a show

where we have to make this

680

00:32:40,745 --> 00:32:43,445

character likeable, um, relatable.

681

00:32:43,445 --> 00:32:46,945

We have to sort of like explain kind

of why we think he got to where,

682

00:32:47,075 --> 00:32:48,525

you know, and did what he did.

683

00:32:48,845 --> 00:32:52,974

But, um, I thought it was absolutely

paramount that we never forgive him.

684

00:32:53,014 --> 00:32:58,025

We never let the audience forget that he

ended people's lives, and ruined families.

685

00:32:58,025 --> 00:33:02,510

And, um, you know, we, You

know, my only thing was, is

686

00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:04,130

like, he wasn't born that way.

687

00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:04,930

He wasn't born a murderer.

688

00:33:05,670 --> 00:33:07,040

He became a murderer.

689

00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:13,489

And, um, so I felt incumbent upon us

to show this journey and show, you

690

00:33:13,489 --> 00:33:17,469

know, cause I think that we sometimes

live in, in a, in a world where now,

691

00:33:17,740 --> 00:33:21,470

where we get a little one note about

things, you know, he's, he's a monster.

692

00:33:21,710 --> 00:33:23,320

Well, yeah, but he wasn't born a monster.

693

00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,190

He became a monster.

694

00:33:24,190 --> 00:33:26,670

And so like, let's look at why and how.

695

00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:27,874

And, um, yeah.

696

00:33:28,245 --> 00:33:32,555

you know, and by the same token,

you don't want to blame, you

697

00:33:32,555 --> 00:33:35,535

know, all of it on any one thing.

698

00:33:35,535 --> 00:33:38,835

You know, you don't want to say that,

um, he did it because of the CTE,

699

00:33:38,915 --> 00:33:42,335

because there are people who had CTE

and did not commit murder, you know?

700

00:33:42,365 --> 00:33:42,585

Yeah.

701

00:33:42,585 --> 00:33:42,895

Marc Preston: Right.

702

00:33:42,895 --> 00:33:43,234

Right.

703

00:33:43,235 --> 00:33:45,904

Stuart Zicherman: Um, so, you know, I

think we just wanted to introduce all

704

00:33:45,904 --> 00:33:50,445

these elements, you know, the, the drug

use, the sexuality, the violence, um,

705

00:33:50,835 --> 00:33:54,355

you know, the, the, the brain injury

stuff and, um, and leave it to the

706

00:33:54,355 --> 00:33:58,880

audience to sort of like, You know,

put it all together to understand

707

00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,790

that he lived a very complicated life.

708

00:34:01,310 --> 00:34:03,780

But again, never forgive

him for what he did.

709

00:34:04,030 --> 00:34:05,580

Marc Preston: Being

the showrunner as well.

710

00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:09,549

I mean, this, you really kind of taking

on the, not just writing it, but you're

711

00:34:09,550 --> 00:34:13,739

also making, you know, big decisions,

you know, was the casting, you know,

712

00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:16,480

something that would cause, you know,

considering you're, you're doing a biopic

713

00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:18,689

basically, and, and, and was the casting.

714

00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:19,790

Hard at all.

715

00:34:19,790 --> 00:34:22,650

Or what did it, did you like when you,

when you kind of landed on, you know, the

716

00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:25,660

character's like, okay, that's the one,

that's the one, but just what's, what

717

00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:27,190

was the casting process like for this?

718

00:34:27,319 --> 00:34:29,359

Stuart Zicherman: No, the casting is

really hard for something like this.

719

00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:32,269

You know, I remember writing the

pilot and thinking like, Oh man,

720

00:34:32,910 --> 00:34:33,829

it's never going to get made.

721

00:34:33,830 --> 00:34:36,780

I'm never going to find a guy to

play her in her dad does, you know?

722

00:34:37,429 --> 00:34:41,640

Uh, but we did, we found this

incredible, You know, guy who, who

723

00:34:41,650 --> 00:34:45,120

really, you know, you know, when you

say we're making a biopic, we're, we're

724

00:34:45,130 --> 00:34:47,020

making, we're interpreting the story.

725

00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:50,040

So we're not looking necessarily

for somebody who looks exactly like

726

00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,820

him or looking for somebody who can

sort of like, you know, inhabit the

727

00:34:53,820 --> 00:34:57,290

character and, and bring to life

all the things in the scripts that

728

00:34:57,290 --> 00:34:59,259

were, you know, that we're writing.

729

00:34:59,260 --> 00:34:59,750

So.

730

00:35:00,150 --> 00:35:04,120

Um, but it's a challenging, it's a

challenging world and challenging

731

00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,370

show because, you know, you need a

guy who, um, you know, for Aaron in

732

00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:12,480

particular, you need a guy who is

big and strong and tough and mean and

733

00:35:12,490 --> 00:35:17,710

scary, but also like this particular

character was goofy and funny and silly.

734

00:35:17,830 --> 00:35:21,360

And um, you know, you're, you're looking

for somebody that can, can take all that

735

00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,300

on, you know, but the same token, you're

also casting a lot of well known people.

736

00:35:25,710 --> 00:35:27,360

So it was tricky with Belichick.

737

00:35:28,620 --> 00:35:32,890

Urban Meyer, you know, Rob Gronkowski,

like all these people that we

738

00:35:32,890 --> 00:35:36,530

all know really, really well as

sports fans, um, you know, you,

739

00:35:36,569 --> 00:35:38,060

you don't want to do caricatures.

740

00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:38,829

That's my thing.

741

00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,009

It's like, again, we're trying to sort

of like tell the story, but you don't

742

00:35:42,010 --> 00:35:43,649

want, I would tell the actors too.

743

00:35:43,945 --> 00:35:48,275

You don't want the actors to, I was like,

don't, you know, tell our Belichick actor,

744

00:35:48,305 --> 00:35:51,335

don't sit and watch hours and hours of

Belichick and trying to imitate him.

745

00:35:51,895 --> 00:35:53,235

Like, make him your own.

746

00:35:53,505 --> 00:35:55,295

It was hard, but it was a hard challenge.

747

00:35:55,305 --> 00:35:56,564

It was really fun.

748

00:35:56,925 --> 00:36:00,394

Marc Preston: I spoke with James Comey,

you know, FBI director, and then Jeff

749

00:36:00,394 --> 00:36:02,034

Daniels, who's a phenomenal actor.

750

00:36:02,075 --> 00:36:04,965

And, you know, And we were speaking

and he and Jeff Daniels did

751

00:36:04,965 --> 00:36:06,205

not have really been dialogue.

752

00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:10,565

I mean, Jeff kind of came out of, he kind

of created on his own interpretation.

753

00:36:10,665 --> 00:36:13,515

And I think that that's,

it's two routes you could go.

754

00:36:13,605 --> 00:36:17,524

I mean, one could almost come off as a

caricature, you know, and James Comey is

755

00:36:17,524 --> 00:36:20,264

like the six foot six ridiculous tall guy.

756

00:36:20,624 --> 00:36:23,535

And here's Jeff Daniels, you know,

this physically, they're not going to

757

00:36:23,535 --> 00:36:27,095

be the same, but it's, it's, it's the

interpretation that makes it interesting.

758

00:36:27,095 --> 00:36:31,150

I think, you know, the, the, the, Nobody

wants an imitation, you know, but in

759

00:36:31,150 --> 00:36:34,410

doing this, did you have all the source

material there, you know, from the

760

00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,049

Boston Globe or what, or, or did you go

out and do some interviews and sit down

761

00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:42,609

with different, uh, different people

who were component parts of the story?

762

00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,429

Stuart Zicherman: We didn't talk to

anybody that was actually in the story.

763

00:36:45,479 --> 00:36:50,150

Um, you know, we, um, we did

have, we did have all the Boston

764

00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:51,880

Globe stuff, the spotlight team.

765

00:36:52,410 --> 00:36:57,580

Um, particularly the reporters who

had reported on the story were so

766

00:36:57,860 --> 00:37:00,399

giving with their time and their,

and their information, and they

767

00:37:00,399 --> 00:37:03,590

would come into the writer's room and

they would answer questions for us.

768

00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,370

And that was great.

769

00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:08,480

And then at the same time, you know,

there were, there were some things

770

00:37:08,889 --> 00:37:10,880

that we needed to learn more about.

771

00:37:11,309 --> 00:37:15,650

Um, and we wanted to do it

without necessarily reaching out

772

00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:18,120

to the real people in the story.

773

00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:22,150

So, you know, like for example,

I really wanted to portray.

774

00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:28,450

what it would be like, you know,

the sort of like toxicity of a male,

775

00:37:28,460 --> 00:37:30,610

like of a locker room at the time.

776

00:37:30,850 --> 00:37:33,880

The University of Florida locker

room was known to be like, you know,

777

00:37:33,949 --> 00:37:39,380

toxic, homophobic, um, place, you

know, with a bunch of characters.

778

00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:43,160

And I'd never been in a, in a,

You know, in a college football

779

00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,320

locker room or pro locker room.

780

00:37:44,530 --> 00:37:47,930

So we ended up bringing on a writer

on the show who's a professional

781

00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:50,010

football player and aspiring writer.

782

00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:51,700

And he's been in locker rooms.

783

00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,280

So it's like, you know,

it's that kind of thing.

784

00:37:53,290 --> 00:37:56,760

Like you just trying to gain

experience of the, of this world.

785

00:37:58,865 --> 00:38:02,025

Marc Preston: It seems like a very pivotal

piece of the story, you know, you have one

786

00:38:02,025 --> 00:38:06,834

guy who's living his own truth internally,

externally, whatever, and you know,

787

00:38:06,865 --> 00:38:12,005

where that may not play very well in the

machismo of the, uh, of the locker room.

788

00:38:12,005 --> 00:38:12,195

Yeah.

789

00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,780

Once this was released, did you get any

feedback from anybody who was a part of

790

00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:20,420

the story who, you know, they're like,

yeah, this, this, this was on point.

791

00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:23,290

Have you spoken with anybody

who was a part of the story

792

00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:24,459

as subsequent to the release?

793

00:38:24,670 --> 00:38:27,970

Stuart Zicherman: No, I mean, you

know, it's, it's again, like, um,

794

00:38:28,139 --> 00:38:32,090

you're not going to get like, you

know, Tom Brady commenting on, uh, you

795

00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:35,710

know, um, I did have a cool moment.

796

00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:41,460

Uh, we were shooting some of the football

down in Florida and, um, Uh, there was

797

00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:45,930

a guy who played, um, who played, we had

all these former football players and,

798

00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:49,590

you know, that were pretending to be

our football players and, and there was

799

00:38:49,590 --> 00:38:55,669

a, uh, a guy, uh, who had played on the

University of Florida team with Hernandez.

800

00:38:56,335 --> 00:39:00,555

Chris Rainey, he came over and introduced

himself and told me about like what it was

801

00:39:00,555 --> 00:39:01,775

like to be in the locker room with him.

802

00:39:01,775 --> 00:39:03,255

And that was really cool.

803

00:39:03,365 --> 00:39:08,174

Um, you know, just getting to talk to, I

talked to a few reporters, um, who were in

804

00:39:08,175 --> 00:39:12,964

the locker room with the Patriots and at

that time, um, guys who covered Hernandez.

805

00:39:13,384 --> 00:39:18,505

Um, and yeah, it's been nice to hear,

like, you know, um, you know, if

806

00:39:18,505 --> 00:39:23,495

you watch the series one to 10, um,

you know, I think people are seeing,

807

00:39:23,965 --> 00:39:26,425

uh, the complexity and, and, and.

808

00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,210

Um, from the few people that,

um, again, most of all it's,

809

00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:32,360

it's the Boston Globe reporters.

810

00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,280

I, they're the ones I

really wanted to make proud.

811

00:39:34,650 --> 00:39:37,970

They feel like we've done a really

good job at sort of like, you know,

812

00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:41,459

portraying the complexity that was

Hernandez's life in a way that,

813

00:39:41,860 --> 00:39:42,960

that may have been really real.

814

00:39:43,219 --> 00:39:45,370

You know, you don't know when

you go into a story like this,

815

00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:47,870

like sadly Hernandez is, is gone.

816

00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:53,400

Um, we can't reach out to him, you know,

and so much of everything that's ever

817

00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,089

been told about his story is speculative.

818

00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,070

You know, no one really knows.

819

00:39:57,505 --> 00:40:01,805

It's been good feedback for us to hear

back, like from people who are around him

820

00:40:01,805 --> 00:40:08,094

and that world and know the story that,

um, our show feels like it's in the zone.

821

00:40:08,455 --> 00:40:09,154

Marc Preston: No pun intended.

822

00:40:09,154 --> 00:40:09,365

Of course.

823

00:40:09,375 --> 00:40:09,545

Yes.

824

00:40:09,685 --> 00:40:13,704

No, uh, the, so has this whetted

your appetite at all for doing any

825

00:40:13,705 --> 00:40:15,094

other kind of projects like this?

826

00:40:15,094 --> 00:40:15,194

Yeah.

827

00:40:15,405 --> 00:40:17,855

Taking not just athletes, but.

828

00:40:18,180 --> 00:40:22,820

Any other historical stories, figures,

things like that, and turn those into,

829

00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,670

uh, be it a television or film project,

or is this kind of like, okay, this

830

00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,400

is your foray into doing this done?

831

00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:29,090

Stuart Zicherman: No, no.

832

00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:31,070

I've always been really

interested in true stories.

833

00:40:31,099 --> 00:40:34,860

Um, and I've always been interested

in sort of like even historical fear.

834

00:40:34,860 --> 00:40:38,690

I mean, um, I made a

pilot about 10 years ago.

835

00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:40,640

That's still one of my favorite

things I ever worked on.

836

00:40:41,020 --> 00:40:43,800

Um, it didn't get picked up

the series, but I made a pilot.

837

00:40:44,330 --> 00:40:46,570

about Casanova, the real Casanova.

838

00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:51,120

Um, you know, I've done this incredibly

bizarre and interesting part of his life

839

00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:55,339

that I didn't know about the people that

know about and wrote a show about that.

840

00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:01,500

You know, um, I recently worked

on a project, um, about Um, a

841

00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:05,110

referee, like, you know, they got

caught up in a gambling scandal.

842

00:41:05,110 --> 00:41:09,230

I, I, you know, I worked on the shrink

next door, which was a true story.

843

00:41:09,330 --> 00:41:12,809

They're challenging, but I do enjoy

bringing true stories to life.

844

00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:16,120

Marc Preston: Kind of next on your,

I don't see next on your agenda,

845

00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:19,299

but what things are you kind of,

uh, cooking up in the kitchen right

846

00:41:19,299 --> 00:41:22,110

now that you feel like, you know,

the next, the next thing for you?

847

00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:24,910

Stuart Zicherman: Um, I am

working on, I just wrote a legal

848

00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:26,340

show, my first ever legal show.

849

00:41:26,410 --> 00:41:27,550

I've never done that before.

850

00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,410

So I'm excited about that.

851

00:41:31,410 --> 00:41:36,650

Now I'm working on a really cool

show based on a book, um, that a

852

00:41:36,650 --> 00:41:39,080

journalist wrote, um, called spooked.

853

00:41:39,585 --> 00:41:44,075

Which is set in the world of private

espionage, the corporate espionage.

854

00:41:44,575 --> 00:41:46,265

Marc Preston: Um, well,

that's interesting.

855

00:41:46,265 --> 00:41:46,765

Yeah.

856

00:41:46,765 --> 00:41:50,015

Especially like the tech world

that like, because you got to

857

00:41:50,015 --> 00:41:51,055

know a lot of that's going on.

858

00:41:51,055 --> 00:41:51,255

Yeah,

859

00:41:51,255 --> 00:41:52,755

Stuart Zicherman: no, I

mean, and it's interesting.

860

00:41:52,755 --> 00:41:56,954

The book is kind of like set in

and around the 2016 election.

861

00:41:57,394 --> 00:41:57,635

It's funny.

862

00:41:57,635 --> 00:41:58,704

You brought up James Comey.

863

00:41:58,705 --> 00:42:03,575

Like, uh, he's, he's in that story, you

know, um, just all this sort of like.

864

00:42:04,185 --> 00:42:09,935

Private spies that were being hired to

dig up and disseminate information around

865

00:42:09,935 --> 00:42:17,655

the 2016 election kind of started a new

era of, of, um, spying where anyone, you

866

00:42:17,655 --> 00:42:19,484

know, you have to be a spy to go into it.

867

00:42:19,535 --> 00:42:20,325

You know, you could be a

868

00:42:20,805 --> 00:42:21,004

Marc Preston: former

869

00:42:21,004 --> 00:42:22,634

Stuart Zicherman: journalist

or a former anything.

870

00:42:22,990 --> 00:42:26,280

Um, and it's kind of the wild west

now where, you know, in a world

871

00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:32,150

where information is power, you know,

disseminating information, um, is

872

00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:36,109

never, you know, and, and creating the

narrative has never been more important.

873

00:42:36,570 --> 00:42:41,920

Um, so yeah, I'm doing a show, um,

actually with my old, uh, Uh, well

874

00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,020

pal Matthew Reese from the Americans,

um, that's set in that world.

875

00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:48,340

Marc Preston: You know, that's

one show that is on my list.

876

00:42:48,340 --> 00:42:49,010

I call it my list.

877

00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:53,189

The things that with a plethora of

great stuff out there, uh, I still

878

00:42:53,189 --> 00:42:56,260

haven't had a chance to watch a

lot of stuff, but the Americans is

879

00:42:56,260 --> 00:42:58,699

on the list, uh, without a doubt.

880

00:42:58,700 --> 00:42:59,440

Oh, absolutely.

881

00:42:59,789 --> 00:43:00,970

I haven't watched game of thrones.

882

00:43:01,010 --> 00:43:03,530

I still, there's things I'd want

to watch, but there's so, you know,

883

00:43:03,660 --> 00:43:06,130

plus I will say I have a three.

884

00:43:06,130 --> 00:43:09,350

Well, there are two of them are

teenagers and we're got 20, One 20

885

00:43:09,350 --> 00:43:13,520

and almost 19 year old, our TV diet

was based upon things like, uh, we

886

00:43:13,530 --> 00:43:17,850

power watch during COVID lost things

that my kids were really into.

887

00:43:17,850 --> 00:43:19,320

And it's kind of my time.

888

00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,080

Now my kids are out there in college.

889

00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:23,639

Now it's my time to catch up

on things like the Americans.

890

00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:25,009

And, uh, but what are you watching?

891

00:43:25,009 --> 00:43:25,139

Right.

892

00:43:25,140 --> 00:43:27,580

And what, what are the, what are, who

are the writers and what are the projects

893

00:43:27,580 --> 00:43:29,690

right now that, that grab your attention?

894

00:43:29,790 --> 00:43:31,750

Who are you enjoying watching right now?

895

00:43:31,850 --> 00:43:35,820

Stuart Zicherman: Um, I'm enjoying,

um, I'm really enjoying this flavor.

896

00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:38,930

I'm enjoying, like everybody else,

I'm enjoying Nobody Wants This.

897

00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:41,360

You know, I think it's, it's

great that the romantic comedy

898

00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,100

genre is coming back to TV.

899

00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:47,599

I'm also enjoying, I have a 12

year old son and I'm in the process

900

00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:49,370

of showing him all the movies.

901

00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,560

That I loved throughout my life,

you know, so I'm, I'm having the

902

00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,480

best time showing him this weekend.

903

00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:56,890

We watched stand by me.

904

00:43:57,050 --> 00:43:57,260

Marc Preston: Yeah.

905

00:43:57,290 --> 00:43:58,450

I said something the other day.

906

00:43:58,450 --> 00:44:00,959

It's like, uh, one of my kids

is off the cuff to sit out.

907

00:44:00,959 --> 00:44:01,329

Captain.

908

00:44:01,330 --> 00:44:03,010

My captain is like, Holy shit.

909

00:44:03,010 --> 00:44:05,219

They still haven't seen dead poet society.

910

00:44:05,690 --> 00:44:05,999

Got it.

911

00:44:05,999 --> 00:44:08,730

I mean, that's just like, you

have to, you know, school ties.

912

00:44:08,780 --> 00:44:11,650

That's another one is, you know, as a

Jewish kid, you know, that was such a,

913

00:44:11,785 --> 00:44:15,795

It kind of goes back to that, that thing

when you were talking about what, what

914

00:44:15,795 --> 00:44:18,635

college, what you thought college would

be, or like the private school, you

915

00:44:18,635 --> 00:44:22,785

know, these, you know, there, there's

a library out there and I'm, my, my

916

00:44:22,785 --> 00:44:24,284

kids are down for checking stuff out.

917

00:44:24,385 --> 00:44:27,835

Stuart Zicherman: After you, um, you

know, after having spent the last 25

918

00:44:27,835 --> 00:44:32,475

years writing movies and shows and to go

back and watch the things that inspired

919

00:44:32,475 --> 00:44:35,775

you, but you didn't know anything about

business, like watching stand by me.

920

00:44:35,775 --> 00:44:39,895

I mean, it's a, Well, I mean as a writer

I can literally sit and watch it and

921

00:44:39,895 --> 00:44:45,335

say there's a flawless script It is a

perfect movie and like it gets to the

922

00:44:45,335 --> 00:44:49,365

end and I just in tears my eyes Like I

couldn't believe I looked over at my son.

923

00:44:49,774 --> 00:44:50,795

He was like, yeah, that's good.

924

00:44:50,825 --> 00:44:53,415

I'm like, no, dude, that's great

925

00:44:55,935 --> 00:44:58,185

Marc Preston: And Reiner his ability

to direct, you know to put that

926

00:44:58,185 --> 00:45:01,115

together with you think of all the

genres that he's played Played with,

927

00:45:01,145 --> 00:45:02,745

you know, like romantic comedy.

928

00:45:09,885 --> 00:45:12,115

We'll tell you before we get going,

I always kind of throw something out.

929

00:45:12,155 --> 00:45:13,415

I call my seven questions.

930

00:45:13,415 --> 00:45:16,055

It's a little extra fun

on the back end of a chat.

931

00:45:16,425 --> 00:45:17,275

A Jewish kid.

932

00:45:17,275 --> 00:45:18,375

I got to ask this question.

933

00:45:18,534 --> 00:45:20,754

Uh, what is your favorite comfort food?

934

00:45:21,874 --> 00:45:22,734

Stuart Zicherman: Favorite comfort food?

935

00:45:22,735 --> 00:45:27,175

Um, it's not that unique.

936

00:45:27,225 --> 00:45:28,355

I love French fries.

937

00:45:28,405 --> 00:45:30,075

I will eat any kind of French fry.

938

00:45:30,115 --> 00:45:32,875

I love French fries, especially

like diner French fries.

939

00:45:32,875 --> 00:45:33,535

I think the really thick.

940

00:45:34,910 --> 00:45:35,250

Marc Preston: Yeah, yeah,

941

00:45:35,250 --> 00:45:40,074

Stuart Zicherman: yeah.

942

00:45:40,445 --> 00:45:41,705

Potato cut French fries.

943

00:45:41,715 --> 00:45:43,185

That's like, that's overdoing it.

944

00:45:43,275 --> 00:45:48,045

But like the thick, like New York

diner, Greek diner French fries.

945

00:45:48,215 --> 00:45:52,414

I've convinced myself that, um,

since potatoes are kind of vegetables

946

00:45:52,674 --> 00:45:55,644

that it's kind of, it, it can't

be that unhealthy French fries.

947

00:45:55,930 --> 00:45:57,240

Marc Preston: You and I

went to the same school.

948

00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:57,520

Yeah.

949

00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:57,810

Okay.

950

00:45:57,850 --> 00:45:59,050

They were, they were

going to sound like that.

951

00:45:59,310 --> 00:46:01,600

I like that thought, but your second

person had mentioned French fries.

952

00:46:01,770 --> 00:46:04,490

Just, uh, I can't remember

who it was said it before.

953

00:46:04,490 --> 00:46:06,520

I'm like, you know, when they're

good, but when they're bad, when

954

00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,990

they're not good French fries,

it's a whole different thing.

955

00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:10,400

It's like this floppy.

956

00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:10,790

Yeah.

957

00:46:10,839 --> 00:46:11,169

Yeah.

958

00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:12,970

Um, next question.

959

00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:16,479

If you're going to sit down, three

people, uh, talk story for a few hours,

960

00:46:16,849 --> 00:46:20,720

uh, living or not, who would you like

to sit down with three people to, to

961

00:46:20,730 --> 00:46:22,319

have some coffee and just talk with?

962

00:46:22,650 --> 00:46:23,290

Stuart Zicherman: Oh, man.

963

00:46:23,690 --> 00:46:25,140

Man, that's a great one.

964

00:46:25,530 --> 00:46:29,510

Um, uh, William Goldman for sure.

965

00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:32,160

I, I, I am a gigantic William Goldman fan.

966

00:46:32,460 --> 00:46:39,689

Um, um, I would love to sit down like,

like with one of the great Beatnik, um,

967

00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:43,780

musicians, you know, like I, I'd love

to say Bob Dylan, but I think he would

968

00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,340

be kind of obscure and weird to talk to.

969

00:46:46,340 --> 00:46:51,870

So I'm going to say like, Someone like

Phil Oakes, um, or someone, um, or

970

00:46:51,870 --> 00:46:56,220

even like a Harry cheap, like someone's

like a great musical storyteller.

971

00:46:56,260 --> 00:47:00,840

Um, I love, I love music and I love the

way that stories are told through music.

972

00:47:01,420 --> 00:47:01,660

Yeah.

973

00:47:01,660 --> 00:47:06,679

And whoever kind of wrote the Bible,

I've been, I've been going to Torah

974

00:47:06,690 --> 00:47:11,430

study recently, you'll appreciate this

and just, you know, the rabbi continues

975

00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:16,890

to like, sort of like really, really,

um, Hit hard, uh, the narrative of

976

00:47:16,890 --> 00:47:20,230

the Bible and how it, like who it

was written by when it was written.

977

00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:22,800

And I'm always like,

it's just a great story.

978

00:47:23,810 --> 00:47:24,840

A lot of crazy

979

00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,060

Marc Preston: storytelling in the Bible.

980

00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,540

To be able to get in discussions with

people about their interpretation,

981

00:47:29,550 --> 00:47:32,990

why, why they think it was, you know,

you know, they kind of break it down

982

00:47:33,019 --> 00:47:36,910

almost not as much of as a theological,

but more of a historical text.

983

00:47:36,910 --> 00:47:38,410

What did it say to the people of the time?

984

00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:41,240

You know, that, that does

seem really intriguing to me.

985

00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:42,380

Stuart Zicherman: I would just

love to know, like whoever wrote

986

00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,255

the Bible, did they know that this

many people were going Watch it.

987

00:47:48,525 --> 00:47:50,335

Marc Preston: This many

stories and interpretations

988

00:47:50,335 --> 00:47:52,225

and, you know, and holidays.

989

00:47:52,265 --> 00:47:52,525

Yeah.

990

00:47:52,835 --> 00:47:56,064

Um, now if we're going to go back

when you were a kid, uh, you know,

991

00:47:56,065 --> 00:48:00,635

watching movies, TV, who was your

first celebrity crush as a kid?

992

00:48:01,255 --> 00:48:02,684

Stuart Zicherman: I mean, celebrity crush.

993

00:48:03,324 --> 00:48:06,494

Well, I mean, I loved all the

Charlie's angels, all three of them.

994

00:48:06,495 --> 00:48:08,155

And I love them for different reasons.

995

00:48:08,575 --> 00:48:14,555

Um, but I'd have to say, Um,

Julie from the love boat was

996

00:48:14,565 --> 00:48:16,835

like my, she was my crush.

997

00:48:17,115 --> 00:48:18,395

She was so helpful.

998

00:48:18,655 --> 00:48:20,455

She always made people's problems go away.

999

00:48:20,905 --> 00:48:22,955

Marc Preston: Zipping around, but

with a little clipboard, you know,

00:48:22,985 --> 00:48:23,785

she always had something going.

00:48:23,835 --> 00:48:24,055

Yeah.

00:48:24,155 --> 00:48:24,304

Just

00:48:24,304 --> 00:48:25,514

Stuart Zicherman: always make

people's problems go away.

00:48:25,514 --> 00:48:30,165

She never like complained and, and,

um, she always like, you know, kind of

00:48:30,185 --> 00:48:31,855

stupid men running around, around her.

00:48:31,855 --> 00:48:32,225

And she just.

00:48:32,830 --> 00:48:37,070

It seemed to be in charge and, um,

she's so pretty and it's like Julie.

00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:37,480

Yeah.

00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:38,140

Marc Preston: Very good.

00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:39,040

I'm I'm there with you.

00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:40,080

We talked about music.

00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,230

Let's say going to be living on an exotic

Island, somewhere you really want to be.

00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:45,419

It's going to be a nice resort,

but no streaming, no internet.

00:48:45,419 --> 00:48:49,270

So if you want to listen to some music,

you're going to be there for a full year.

00:48:49,339 --> 00:48:53,120

You need to bring a DVD for

a movie and a CD, an album.

00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,950

It can be a box set even, but that's

all you have to listen to and watch.

00:48:56,980 --> 00:49:00,340

What would that DVD and what would that

CD be for that full year on that Island?

00:49:00,615 --> 00:49:02,235

Stuart Zicherman: Well, I was

thinking about this recently because

00:49:02,235 --> 00:49:10,035

I rewatched, um, uh, that two part

Scorsese documentary about Bob Dylan,

00:49:10,544 --> 00:49:14,874

um, that had the two parts that were

like, you know, Dylan pre electric and

00:49:14,874 --> 00:49:21,405

then Dylan post electric and, um, and,

and, um, I love it about the history of

00:49:21,615 --> 00:49:25,335

folk music and then, um, sort of like

the way he hooked up with the band.

00:49:25,785 --> 00:49:30,065

Um, and then have the band, the

tour of Europe and, and, you know,

00:49:30,575 --> 00:49:32,205

all the relationships in the movie.

00:49:32,205 --> 00:49:37,935

And, and, um, it's a great movie,

like a great dramatic thrust and

00:49:37,935 --> 00:49:39,745

also just the most incredible music.

00:49:40,384 --> 00:49:41,265

So that was a great one.

00:49:41,265 --> 00:49:44,945

I think it's called don't look back,

but that was, that's a great one.

00:49:45,215 --> 00:49:46,485

I'm still really like lately.

00:49:46,485 --> 00:49:50,080

Like Really falling back in love

with, um, Pink Floyd albums.

00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:56,619

Um, because they are just so

rich and, um, I can listen to

00:49:56,620 --> 00:50:00,029

them over and over and constantly

finding different things in them

00:50:00,689 --> 00:50:03,700

Marc Preston: and get a good box set

of them, uh, Pink Floyd and bring that

00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:07,720

with you now, last couple of questions

here, if you were to say from the time

00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,490

you get up in the morning till the

time you go to bed, the component parts

00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:14,350

of a perfect day for you, what would

those component parts of perfect day

00:50:14,350 --> 00:50:17,880

be to say this day was perfect for me.

00:50:18,860 --> 00:50:19,250

Stuart Zicherman: Oh man.

00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:22,370

Well, it would start with like

my kids, you know, being really

00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:23,360

nice to me in the morning.

00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:28,340

. Um, uh, it would start

with some kind of exercise.

00:50:28,580 --> 00:50:32,420

Um, I'd like to do a little bit

of writing, but not that much.

00:50:32,570 --> 00:50:36,460

Uh, 'cause you know, two or three hours

is usually my sweet spot and I'd like

00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:37,660

to spend the rest of the day fishing.

00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:38,890

I really like fishing.

00:50:38,985 --> 00:50:39,405

Really?

00:50:39,515 --> 00:50:39,805

Okay.

00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:41,500

? Yeah.

00:50:41,835 --> 00:50:47,685

Um, I like fly fishing and I, uh,

like being on a river or, uh, piece

00:50:47,685 --> 00:50:52,095

of water, uh, with my fly rod,

maybe in a kayak and, uh, yeah.

00:50:52,255 --> 00:50:52,855

Marc Preston: Very cool.

00:50:52,865 --> 00:50:53,465

Very cool.

00:50:54,085 --> 00:50:57,585

Now, if somebody said, listen, you

can't do this for a living, this is

00:50:57,585 --> 00:50:59,945

not something that's going to be able

to put a roof over your head anymore.

00:50:59,965 --> 00:51:01,865

What would then be your next choice?

00:51:01,885 --> 00:51:03,475

What would you be doing besides this?

00:51:03,755 --> 00:51:08,495

Stuart Zicherman: Um, I would love to

have studied or be studying anthropology.

00:51:09,090 --> 00:51:12,660

Uh, be teaching anthropology or, or being

out in the world, doing whatever, like

00:51:12,660 --> 00:51:14,180

someone who is an anthropologist does.

00:51:14,190 --> 00:51:16,300

Although I rarely see them

do anything but teach.

00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:21,360

Um, but like, I just love, I love travel

and I love people and the study of people.

00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,359

And, um, uh, so I would like to, I

would love to be an anthropologist.

00:51:27,195 --> 00:51:30,625

Marc Preston: Yeah, to me, uh, like

Anthony Bourdain was sort of a quasi

00:51:30,855 --> 00:51:34,075

anthropology, you know, be able to

travel and eat that, that to me would

00:51:34,145 --> 00:51:36,384

be like, why does this culture do this?

00:51:36,384 --> 00:51:38,555

This completely submit to

whatever culture you're in.

00:51:38,735 --> 00:51:39,374

That would be right.

00:51:39,575 --> 00:51:41,935

Stuart Zicherman: But I really

like, I really like I'm the opposite

00:51:41,935 --> 00:51:45,395

of like whatever colonialist

was like, I love going places.

00:51:45,685 --> 00:51:48,435

And like sinking into the

culture and whatever they do.

00:51:49,055 --> 00:51:51,435

Um, and just pretending I'm not me.

00:51:51,505 --> 00:51:53,945

Um, yeah, I would love that.

00:51:54,605 --> 00:51:55,035

Marc Preston: Very cool.

00:51:55,045 --> 00:51:57,735

Well, the last question I got for

you, let's say you got that DeLorean.

00:51:57,745 --> 00:51:59,924

You can travel back to

when you were 16 years old.

00:51:59,924 --> 00:52:02,624

You got a piece of advice

to make in that moment.

00:52:02,624 --> 00:52:06,445

You're in, make that moment a little

bit better, easier, whatever, or maybe

00:52:06,445 --> 00:52:07,665

put you on a little bit different path.

00:52:07,685 --> 00:52:10,175

What would that advice

to 16 year old you be?

00:52:10,905 --> 00:52:13,315

Stuart Zicherman: Oh man, just be patient.

00:52:13,565 --> 00:52:18,175

You know, like, I mean, so much like

growing up and being hungry for things

00:52:18,175 --> 00:52:23,235

and wanting to, you know, like I wanted

to travel and meet people and learn

00:52:23,235 --> 00:52:27,595

things and go places and be a Hollywood

writer and I wanted to do so many

00:52:27,615 --> 00:52:33,670

things and you, and, um, slowing down

to like, you know, Because once you

00:52:33,790 --> 00:52:37,240

start to like do those things right,

you can't go back to not having them.

00:52:37,570 --> 00:52:38,110

And it's like, yeah.

00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,840

Marc Preston: You know, just the, well,

isn't that part of our Jewish DNA where

00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,850

you kind of fuss over like, I wanna

make sure I'm doing the right thing.

00:52:42,850 --> 00:52:42,851

Yeah.

00:52:42,856 --> 00:52:43,480

Am I doing the thing?

00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:44,560

Am I doing, you know, it's

00:52:44,765 --> 00:52:47,020

Stuart Zicherman: no, that's exact

that, that's a better way to put it.

00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:48,280

It's like there is no right thing.

00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,100

Like you're gonna, yeah,

you're gonna go the wrong way.

00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:52,360

You're gonna make mistakes.

00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,430

You're gonna like, it's

all part of the journey.

00:52:54,790 --> 00:53:00,090

Yeah, I just, I, but I think that is just

such an intrinsic part of youth, you know?

00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,990

Marc Preston: Yeah, if you're not,

if you're afraid of messing up,

00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:02,820

you're not playing the game right.

00:53:03,140 --> 00:53:05,339

You know, I think you gotta, you

gotta make mistakes, fall on your

00:53:05,339 --> 00:53:06,840

face, learn some things, you know?

00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:09,829

Well, my friend, I, I really enjoyed the,

the, the opportunity to sit down with you.

00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:10,479

It's such a pleasure.

00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:11,860

I appreciate you sharing

your time with me.

00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:15,619

You're obviously a busy, busy guy and,

uh, hopefully, uh, we'll have a chance

00:53:15,619 --> 00:53:16,689

to catch up down the line, my friend.

00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:18,260

Stuart Zicherman: I really

appreciate you having me.

00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:18,820

I really do.

00:53:20,785 --> 00:53:23,045

Marc Preston: All right, there

you go, Stuart Zicherman.

00:53:23,395 --> 00:53:28,325

A talented guy making all kinds

of TV, film, just a cool creative.

00:53:28,605 --> 00:53:31,474

It's kind of cool to sit down and

talk to the folks who are behind

00:53:31,474 --> 00:53:33,545

the camera on the creative side.

00:53:33,735 --> 00:53:36,784

Now, I'm going to go and jump on

out of here because as I take a

00:53:36,784 --> 00:53:41,075

peek behind me, I'm seeing Ranger,

our golden retriever puppy.

00:53:41,075 --> 00:53:45,000

I say puppy, he's like, He's like, Eight

months old now, uh, somebody's mowing the

00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,850

yard outside and he is deeply intrigued

and wants to go out and see what's up.

00:53:48,850 --> 00:53:51,680

So I'm going to take him out,

but, uh, before I get going, I

00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,439

want to remind you, please go to

story and craft pod slash rate.

00:53:56,459 --> 00:53:58,600

Once again, story and craft pod.

00:53:59,180 --> 00:54:02,750

com slash rate, uh, give you

an opportunity to drop a little

00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:04,270

review, if you will, of the show.

00:54:04,450 --> 00:54:08,030

I greatly appreciate those

drop some stars as well.

00:54:08,060 --> 00:54:09,490

I mean stars are great.

00:54:09,530 --> 00:54:13,540

I mean, it's kind of it's kind of

podcaster fuel You know, it's a way

00:54:13,540 --> 00:54:17,120

to kind of throw a little bit of love

our way Also, make sure to follow the

00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,789

show, uh, you get notified every time

there's a new episode if you follow So

00:54:20,789 --> 00:54:24,159

please do if you would uh now i'm gonna

go jump on out of here as I mentioned

00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:26,930

because the pooch Well, it's patrol time.

00:54:27,020 --> 00:54:30,810

We got to get on out I'm going to be back

soon with another episode, so I'm going

00:54:30,810 --> 00:54:34,820

to talk to you then, and I want to thank

you again for making what I got going

00:54:34,820 --> 00:54:36,840

on part of whatever you've got going on.

00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:41,560

So enjoy the rest of your day, or

evening, or whatever you have going on.

00:54:41,729 --> 00:54:44,550

I'll catch you next time,

right here on Story Craft.

00:54:44,550 --> 00:54:47,160

Announcer: That's it for

this episode of Story Craft.

00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:51,770

Join Marc next week for more

conversation, right here on Story Craft.

00:54:52,220 --> 00:54:56,090

Story Craft is a presentation of

Marc Preston Productions, LLC.

00:54:57,075 --> 00:54:59,425

Executive producer is Marc Preston.

00:54:59,805 --> 00:55:02,235

Associate producer is Zachary Holden.

00:55:02,595 --> 00:55:05,904

Please rate and review Story

Craft on Apple Podcasts.

00:55:06,175 --> 00:55:10,614

Don't forget to subscribe to the

show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

00:55:10,615 --> 00:55:12,045

or your favorite podcast app.

00:55:12,305 --> 00:55:15,234

You can subscribe to show

updates and stay in the know.

00:55:15,394 --> 00:55:17,655

Just head to storyandcraftpod.

00:55:17,705 --> 00:55:19,515

com and sign up for the newsletter.

00:55:20,095 --> 00:55:20,835

I'm Emma Dylan.

00:55:21,545 --> 00:55:22,205

See you next time.

00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:24,785

And remember, keep telling your story.

00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:26,450

You