Ken Leung | Raised by Acting

[00:00:00] Ken Leung: Mickey Mouse. I don't know what it's like to not be a person, but yeah. What's it like? Mickey Mouse? People gotta people draw you and stuff.

[00:00:11] Announcer: Welcome to Story and Craft. Now here's your host, Marc Preston.

[00:00:16] Marc Preston: All right, here we go. Another episode of Story and Craft. Welcome, glad to have you back. Uh, appreciate it greatly.

[00:00:24] Marc Preston: And if. This is your very first episode. Well, welcome. Thank you for, uh, taking an opportunity to check out the show today. Fun conversation. Really enjoyed sitting down with actor Ken l you know, Ken, he's been around forever. I mean, he's been on stage on Broadway film, TV on film. He is been in rush hour.

[00:00:43] Marc Preston: He's been in, uh, star Wars, the Force Awakens. Uh, he's been, uh, in all kinds of great projects, uh, TV like The Sopranos and one of my favorite shows of all time. Lost. He played miles and, uh, he's in the new season of industry on HBO and HBO [00:01:00] Max. It is on right now, season four is out. Uh, we, we covered a lot of ground.

[00:01:05] Marc Preston: Had a great conversation. Really enjoyed sitting down with Ken and of course, of course, I'd ask him questions about lost. I'm like a fan boy, and, uh, hey, uh, do me a favor if you would. We got something really cool going on. I'm a big fan of independent media and, uh, really like what's going on at substack.

[00:01:23] Marc Preston: Maybe you've done some stuff with Substack. It's very cool. Uh, they have kind of a different way of doing things and I really am jazzed to announce that you can find story and craft on sub, you can sign up for the newsletter. So every time a new episode comes out, you'd get a little email in your inbox, uh, with all the info.

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[00:02:05] Marc Preston: Uh, just make sure to follow the show. That way you do get notified when a new episode comes out. And of course, uh, at story and craft pod.com, you can send me an email, uh, send me a note. In fact, I got a really nice note, uh, from Kim. Uh, I'm not quite sure where Kim is located, but she said, uh, she wanted me to know how much her, how much this podcast has inspired her to pursue her dream.

[00:02:28] Marc Preston: And she said, good job. So that made my day, you know, hey, if you're listening to this and it lightens your load a little bit, especially with. You know, turn on the news, uh, or just, you know, you're inspired by one of the guests, you know, that makes me feel great. So thank you, Kim. I appreciate it. Alright, let's jump right into it.

[00:02:45] Marc Preston: Today is Ken Luday right here on Story and Craft.

[00:02:52] Ken Leung: Hi Marc.

[00:02:52] Marc Preston: Are you in LA right now or are you Uh,

[00:02:54] Ken Leung: I'm in new.

[00:02:55] Marc Preston: You're in New York. Okay. Is that home base for you?

[00:02:58] Ken Leung: Brooklyn is home. Yeah.

[00:02:59] Marc Preston: So [00:03:00] y'all, uh, y'all got a new mayor and everything and things are, you know, buzzing and excited. Actually excited. My daughter is up there excited.

[00:03:05] Marc Preston: Uh, she's, she's up there right now. In fact, she's doing, uh, uh, she did a semester abroad and just got back and two seconds later she wanted to go up to New York and hang out with one of the friends she met on the semester abroad. So she'd had her very first New Year is in New York, so. Oh, cool. She's always wanted up there when it's snowing.

[00:03:23] Ken Leung: Where was she

[00:03:23] Marc Preston: abroad? She, uh, she started off in Berlin, which she loved. And then she went to London, which not as much. And then she went to Milan, but every weekend she was on a plane or a train. I'm like, God, be 19 years old again. Just kinda traveling Europe and. I'm sure the photo album, we're gonna have a, have to have a long photo.

[00:03:44] Marc Preston: A uh, a slideshow, a photo roll watching E. Exactly, exactly. My kids and I during CO, we power watched, uh, lost their teenagers. Were at home and we're trying to find something as a family. I don't know if that series is designed to be watched and, and a very [00:04:00] compressed amount of time. We were watching at least two episodes a day.

[00:04:03] Marc Preston: Uh, when I tell 'em I'm not talk to you, they're gonna be my, well, I know my son's gonna be very jealous. So, um,

[00:04:08] Ken Leung: you watched all six seasons. And

[00:04:11] Marc Preston: just like a min, it was kinda like, did you ever see the mo Uh, this is 40 Mod Appal, you know, Jud Apatow's daughter. There was a scene and this is 40 when she's just

[00:04:20] Ken Leung: Oh,

[00:04:20] Marc Preston: that's right.

[00:04:20] Marc Preston: On her iPad watching it. That's

[00:04:21] Ken Leung: right.

[00:04:22] Marc Preston: And she gets the very last episode. I was like, that was, that was my kids like, every day was like, we're watching two episodes. It, it's, it's a ride. It's a, it was a great show, but I'm, I'm thinking. If it was referenced, and this is 40 and this is 40 is a while back. I'm like, how long?

[00:04:36] Marc Preston: When was the last season of loss?

[00:04:37] Ken Leung: Well, it was recent. There was a 20 year anniversary recently, I believe. Um, so early aughts,

[00:04:46] Marc Preston: it's weird as you're getting older, the, I could say something was the other day, uh, and it could have been months ago. Like, I'm like my reference point, I was thinking of a guest I had on the, and I always said, oh, it was just a few months ago.

[00:04:58] Marc Preston: It was two years ago. So

[00:04:59] Ken Leung: yeah,

[00:04:59] Marc Preston: my [00:05:00] reference point of time is, uh, kinda a little shaken here, but

[00:05:02] Ken Leung: I think that's because our minds can only hold so much.

[00:05:07] Marc Preston: Yeah.

[00:05:07] Ken Leung: I think that's why, you know, at the end not to get all. Somber suddenly, but at the end when people say, God, that was so fast. Like, it, it, you know, it just all flew by.

[00:05:19] Ken Leung: It's not that it flew by, it's that we can only hold so much.

[00:05:23] Marc Preston: I think we can only hold so much stuff of real value. I think some of the Bs, some of the, 'cause when you're younger, you're, everything's, I, I've read something about this the other day. I don't know the psychology of it, but everything's new to you.

[00:05:34] Marc Preston: And so as you get older, the only things you tend to retain are the things that are new, which when you think about your day-to-day life. We don't encounter as much new stuff. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I also have this philosophy and I'm kind of moving away from, I don't know about you and social media, but for me, I'm like, I'm, I'm kind of moving a little bit away from it because it's just kind of, um, I think we're designed to be, um.

[00:05:57] Marc Preston: In a, not a tribe, but [00:06:00] evolutionarily speaking, we're meant to know, really know more than maybe a hundred people or something. I forgot what. There is a theory behind that. And when you have literally thou or so many more people, it's a lot more interactions. And maybe they're not as qu, I don't know. It's, it's very interesting the mm-hmm.

[00:06:15] Marc Preston: Brain is funny stuff, how it works. But, uh, are you originally a New York kid or is that where you're from? Uh, is that your original home base?

[00:06:22] Ken Leung: Born and raised

[00:06:23] Marc Preston: in Brooklyn, or did you grow up in the city or

[00:06:25] Ken Leung: Queens? No, I, I, I grew up in, uh, lower East Side slash Chinatown for all of the seventies, and then we moved to Midwood, Brooklyn when I was nine, and then I was there till high school and we moved to New Jersey where my parents are now.

[00:06:45] Ken Leung: And then I went to NYU, so I moved back into the city

[00:06:48] Marc Preston: You grew up in, I mean, in the seventies in New York, that was, that was a whole different kind of New York than now.

[00:06:53] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:06:53] Marc Preston: You know, it was, uh, lot grittier, you know.

[00:06:56] Ken Leung: Yeah. I was a, I was little, so I don't [00:07:00] have, you know, my memories of it are really, um, I remember the blackout of 77, I think it was.

[00:07:07] Ken Leung: Um, I remember Times Square, um, seeing. King Kong there. Uh, I remember, oh, radio City had this live piano player saw Puff the Magic Dragon there. I remember Chinatown when it was full of movie theaters. There isn't a single one left.

[00:07:28] Marc Preston: Is Chinatown still very much? 'cause I know like Little Italy, uh, I was, who was watching like Anthony Bourdain or Andrew Zimmer or somebody up there that things are kind of changing, like Little Italy isn't.

[00:07:39] Marc Preston: Like as Italian as it once was. Has there been that much of a change up there?

[00:07:43] Ken Leung: Not in terms of, I mean, it's still Chinese. Um, it's just new businesses, uh, and a lot, a lot of, a lot of small businesses have closed down because of COVID. Uh. And I mean, not only COVID, [00:08:00] but COVID created this kind of, there was all this anti-Asian violence for a spell.

[00:08:06] Marc Preston: Oh, yeah,

[00:08:07] Ken Leung: yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and so a lot of, a lot of places went out of business. Um, but it's still, the, the, the vibe of it is still the same.

[00:08:17] Marc Preston: Were, you know, were your parents, were they born here or are you the first generation, uh, in your family being

[00:08:22] Ken Leung: born? I'm the first generation to be born here. Uh, they came.

[00:08:26] Ken Leung: From Southern China. I think they were in their either late teens or early twenties. I know very little about my parents' story actually.

[00:08:38] Marc Preston: Really,

[00:08:38] Ken Leung: because they're very reluctant to talk about it. They're very, they're reluctant to talk, period. They're not communicators par partially why. I do this at all. Um, yeah.

[00:08:53] Ken Leung: Yeah. So, and, and something about, you know, growing up I would ask them about their, [00:09:00] where they, you know, back home, what it was like when they were kids. And I always, I got a sense that it was not, they, first of all, they didn't like talking about it, and it was, there was a sense that they were. Like they never wanted to go visit.

[00:09:17] Marc Preston: Kinda like they wanted to close the door on that and move beyond it. That that's the sense. Do you find that, you know, it's very interesting. My, my son is dating a young lady from Vietnam and I, I mentioned Anthony Bourdain a moment ago, and I remember he did an episode in, uh, Los Angeles and he had some Korean, uh, chefs and uh, folks on.

[00:09:34] Marc Preston: Mm-hmm. And it seems like there's, there's. You know, culturally when you, when folks came over here, they really want you to do better. You know, uh, it was, it was there a, like a big push for you to do things that are, you know, of course acting is, is, I don't think on top of the list necessarily, but were they wanting you, did they have a professional idea, like in mind, like a, they want you to be an accountant, a doctor, a professor, or something like that?

[00:09:59] Marc Preston: Or, [00:10:00] or were they. Or is that even really discussed that much?

[00:10:03] Ken Leung: I think they just wanted me to be okay in a country where they were struggling to make friends with themselves, so they didn't really know what okay meant. Um, and so maybe predictably they wanted me to be in a profession that was reliable and Sure, like any parents, you know, doctor, lawyer, whatever things, some, something like that.

[00:10:27] Ken Leung: Um. So they took to me being an actor, very, uh, you know, they did, they didn't like it at all. I don't think they understood it enough to have a specific feeling about it. It was just kind of a general, you know, show business is not reliable famously, so.

[00:10:48] Marc Preston: Oh, okay.

[00:10:49] Ken Leung: So. And to this day, you know, we, we never talk about it.

[00:10:54] Ken Leung: They never ask me how I'm doing, what I'm doing, how it's going. I've been at it for [00:11:00] like, you know. 20, 30 years now. And so there's a gulf between us as far as, as far as that. My dad, when he wasn't re before he was retired, he was a high school, uh, uh, math teacher. And so a lot of his students would ask about me and he would talk about, he, he, he would talk to them about it.

[00:11:22] Ken Leung: Ask me for pictures and autographs for students, but it never went deeper than that.

[00:11:28] Marc Preston: Did he start thinking hell, well, okay, maybe Ken's doing something kind of cool. I mean, I think his kids think he's cool, you know? Or maybe I wasn't really the objective.

[00:11:36] Ken Leung: I, I, I think it, I, I don't know. There's no, there's no way for me to know how he felt about it.

[00:11:41] Ken Leung: I, I don't know that he knows what he feels about it, because he knows so little about it.

[00:11:45] Marc Preston: With other kids of Chinese descent of your generation, did they have a similar experience to you as far as the parents not wanting to, you know, they kind of closed the chapter on China, or was it, you know, did you find similarities with other kids who [00:12:00] were raised, you know, were they raised similarly to you or you had that kind of connection?

[00:12:03] Ken Leung: I think to a degree it, it. It was similar, but like I said, that their personalities are very, they're, they're hard to, they're closed kind of people. Okay. Now, how, how much is that? Is because of where they're from, you know, their upbringing? How much of it is just how they were, how they came out? I, I don't know.

[00:12:28] Ken Leung: I don't know very much about them.

[00:12:31] Marc Preston: So you kind of did 180 degrees. You're ultra expressive and, uh, a storyteller.

[00:12:37] Ken Leung: Well, I'm, I'm not, I attempt to be, uh, I became an actor to learn how to be a part of this world and a person who is not closed and because I'm their son, that's hard for me. It takes some doing, um.

[00:12:56] Ken Leung: But I saw acting as, you [00:13:00] know, a safe space to meet people, to learn what it is to be in somebody's presence. How, what you and I are doing right now, how to have a conversation, what to do with my feelings, what are feelings. Um, so, and I've said this before, I have felt like acting kind of raised me. Um, in that respect,

[00:13:28] Marc Preston: no.

[00:13:28] Marc Preston: The, the people you got had had an opportunity to work around. A lot of times we have. I mean, I know many, many years ago, and I worked in radio, there's some people you kinda latch onto. They make sense to you and you kind of learn something from them. Was there anybody in your acting ecosystem that you kind of, you know, you kind of came into your own a little bit easier by kind of watching them or communicating them?

[00:13:48] Marc Preston: Maybe they had bits of advice for you or something like that?

[00:13:51] Ken Leung: I mean, I guess so through the years, but I, I see acting as, um. Like I, I don't see it as something that I have [00:14:00] down. I see it kind of as a new thing each time. And, you know, talking, this conversation right now is teaching me stuff. We're dealing, dealing with the tech.

[00:14:10] Ken Leung: Dealing with the tech that we had is teaching me, well, this could very easily throw me off or throw Marc off. And how, how are, how do we find ourselves? How do we, how do we stay connected? Or connect, um, despite,

[00:14:28] Marc Preston: well, you sound

[00:14:28] Ken Leung: these things,

[00:14:29] Marc Preston: you sound in inherently curious. Do you think you are, I mean, do you think you're just kinda naturally a curious guy?

[00:14:34] Marc Preston: Are you kind of an, kind of an, an explorer mentality or, or am I kind of reading kind of accurately?

[00:14:39] Ken Leung: Yeah, I think I'm curious. I, I don't know that I'm any more curious than the next guy, but I, I think I have the luxury of people wanting to ask me questions and are curious about what I do. Not everyone gets that.

[00:14:53] Ken Leung: Um, and so I'm very lucky in that respect. I, I think I'm responding to that [00:15:00] accordingly.

[00:15:00] Marc Preston: So did you study acting? Was this something that you tried to do formally or

[00:15:04] Ken Leung: A little bit. A little bit. I, I went to school not for acting, but for, I was in NYU's pre-physical therapy program, um, and. Part of the requirements for that was a speech class.

[00:15:18] Ken Leung: And during that speech class, a classmate noticed that I liked part of the class was that we had to act out skits, and he noticed that I really took to that part and suggested that I take. Acting and she's like, yeah, you should take Intro to Acting and see what it's, see what it's like. You seem to like this.

[00:15:36] Ken Leung: So I did that. I took a couple of Intro to acting classes at NYU, um, and I had a teacher, Katherine Russell, who was kind of a very practical minded teacher and taught us. This is what a resume looks like. This is what to expect in an audition. So just go out there, put yourself out there and see what happens.

[00:15:57] Ken Leung: And so I did that. [00:16:00] Um, and so I didn't have a formal schooling as far as, you know, I wasn't in any program, but I took a couple, couple of classes and I learned from doing. I did a lot of plays, took another class at HP Studio with Anne Jackson, which was great. But to this day, you know, I see it, it's kind of a, a classroom, the doing of it.

[00:16:24] Marc Preston: It's funny you say that because I think if you were to stack your resume up against any other working actor, you, you know, you're, you've had a wonderful constellation of different kind of work, different kind of, uh, experiences working with different directors, uh, great directors, and, but you're still kind of in that learning, eternal, the eternal student.

[00:16:40] Ken Leung: Well, I, I could also say that I've. Lived almost 56 years of days. And that should mean that tomorrow I should master tomorrow. And I, I don't know that

[00:16:53] Marc Preston: mm-hmm.

[00:16:53] Ken Leung: Necessarily. It depends on what it brings me, depends on which side, what side of bed I wake up on. [00:17:00] Um. So, you know,

[00:17:03] Marc Preston: it's kinda like being a parent though, you know?

[00:17:04] Marc Preston: Like, you could know everything. Like today, I remember when I was, when my kids were yo younger, um, I'll say they're 13. I can know everything about how to be a father of a 13-year-old. I've got this man, I'm throwing myself a parade. I'm master father. Then the next day, they're a day older and everything changes.

[00:17:19] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:17:19] Marc Preston: You know, so, yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things I've, I learned over time is that

[00:17:22] Ken Leung: that's a great, that's a great analogy. It's

[00:17:23] Marc Preston: always,

[00:17:23] Ken Leung: yeah.

[00:17:24] Marc Preston: It's always this kind of, it's like a wave, you know? It's the same wave, but it, it looks different from time. It's a swell to the time. It, you know,

[00:17:30] Ken Leung: not only is it different, you are different.

[00:17:32] Ken Leung: You are different in every moment. Yeah. So it's always now, it's always now, even if you've done it seemingly have done it forever, you're always starting all over again. That's kind of acting, creates an environment that acknowledges that actually. So I love it for that.

[00:17:49] Marc Preston: God, what, what a great way to put it.

[00:17:51] Marc Preston: I, I never really thought of. In that regard that it, it's, there is a philosopher and I don't know Alan Watts, I don't know if you're familiar with him, but Yeah.

[00:17:58] Ken Leung: I love Alan Watts. Yeah.

[00:17:59] Marc Preston: Yeah. [00:18:00] And he, you know, he had a deep respect for eastern culture and religion. His mother, I think, taught, uh, diplomats, uh, the children of diplomats from, uh, like, uh, China.

[00:18:08] Marc Preston: And he did, that was the genesis of it. And he talked about the eternal now. You know, you're always living and now there is no tomorrow. There's no, you know, I think acting's unique 'cause you can sort of trap something in sort of a, uh, like a jewel box for a moment. You know, like you, you, you can capture a moment and kinda live in that through multiple takes, you know, over and over again especially.

[00:18:28] Marc Preston: But, but yeah, that's a really wonderful way of looking at it. Um. Going back to your experience though, when you first started working and you, you started feeling that you had some traction. Were you kinda like setting, uh, not necessarily goals, but were you like, you know, I really wanna do this genre, or I wanna work with this kind of director, I have this, did you start setting goals or were you just kinda riding the wave and see where it took you?

[00:18:51] Ken Leung: I didn't know how long, um, I was gonna be able to do it. I just wanted to be in it as for as long as it would have me. Um, and when [00:19:00] I was starting out, that meant plays. And theater. Um, and sure as an actor, as a young actor, you're, you're always like, God, what, what would it be like to be in a movie or a TV show?

[00:19:13] Ken Leung: Um, and so, you know, a lot of, a lot of, uh, New York actors have law and order is their entry into the union.

[00:19:22] Marc Preston: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:23] Ken Leung: Um, and so I did a couple of those and, you know, that led to other things. Then I got rush hour. The, the reason I got rush hour was because I was in a play where I had to bleach my hair blonde for the play.

[00:19:38] Ken Leung: And so I auditioned with blonde hair and I believe that is why I got that role. Um, one of the main reasons why I got that role. So then that, you know, things lead to other things, um, with a little bit of luck, you know, circumstantial things like the bleached hair. So I just, I just [00:20:00] kept at it. It wasn't so much premeditated.

[00:20:02] Ken Leung: It wasn't like this is, I'm gonna set myself a goal and then see if I can reach it. Uh, this field doesn't really. Doesn't lead you to do that. You're lucky to be in it for a day. A second day is not promised to this day. That's how I see it.

[00:20:19] Marc Preston: You, uh, you've landed in a lot of things that I kind of, kind of Marc as like, no, I don't wanna say pivotal, but really kind of really cool.

[00:20:25] Marc Preston: Not only cool projects, but like, did, was there anyone you worked with that you're like, oh, this makes sense to me? As a, as a director, uh, what they're doing aligns kind of with the way I like to approach this thing, you know? Was there any Sydney Sidney

[00:20:41] Ken Leung: ette.

[00:20:41] Marc Preston: Really? Oh, you worked with Sidney Ette. Really?

[00:20:43] Marc Preston: Really?

[00:20:44] Ken Leung: Yeah. We did a thing called strip search. Um, it was right after nine 11 and it was based on, um, the government, uh, you know, big Brother, and it was based on. The loss of civil [00:21:00] liberties and suddenly everyone's looking closer at everything because of the fear of terrorism. Um, I had a chance to work with him previous to that on.

[00:21:11] Ken Leung: 21 Center Street that showed that he, that he did. Um, but I couldn't do it for some reason. So I, I worked with him on strip search, but

[00:21:21] Marc Preston: that's one of the first, one of the first books I read was some, uh, it was something he wrote, uh,

[00:21:25] Ken Leung: yeah. Making movies.

[00:21:27] Marc Preston: Yeah. Yep. I was captivated about it. Like he just talked about like how he starts his day and getting in the car with a driver.

[00:21:33] Marc Preston: I'm like, it was just what a great experience that must have been to be with, uh, you know, somebody Yeah. Argued Sidney

[00:21:38] Ken Leung: Mette because he's very. You know when, when he auditions you, he's not watching you read with another actor. He, he is the other actor he reads with you. Really? And the reason he does that is because all he cares about is the connection.

[00:21:56] Ken Leung: Are you really talking to him? Um, and once [00:22:00] he registers that you are really talking to him and not executing some plan that you rehearsed in your bathroom, that he's, he, he's done. He doesn't need any more of the audition. He stops it. Uh, so I love that about him. Because I know he's watching very closely.

[00:22:19] Ken Leung: He's very present. He's registering if I'm engaged or not engaged. He, you know, he's that kind of a director. So I, I love that. Um, and, and just generally he's a very warm, almost paternal kind of presence on a set. Very encouraging and very. Supportive.

[00:22:40] Marc Preston: My apologies. I got a year and a half gold golden retriever, and usually he's upstairs, but now he's kind of graduated being down here with me, but he's uh Oh,

[00:22:47] Ken Leung: cool.

[00:22:47] Ken Leung: Oh, I'm glad he's

[00:22:48] Marc Preston: in the room.

[00:22:48] He,

[00:22:49] Marc Preston: oh yeah, he's he's on the sofa. He's looking out the window. He is s was Sez, is he

[00:22:51] Ken Leung: sing? Is that a sneeze or something?

[00:22:55] Marc Preston: He's, he, oh yeah, he is like a wolf. We live on an island, uh, called South Padre Island and, and, uh, they're [00:23:00] all the people, they use our street to get to the beach Uhhuh.

[00:23:02] Marc Preston: So he watches people go to the beach and he like wants to talk to them. Yeah.

[00:23:06] Ken Leung: Ah, sweet.

[00:23:07] Marc Preston: Oh, he is very, he's very social. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, sweet. Um, but, so, so, you know, of course I'm not trying to do a tour of your resume, but there are a few specific notes of, of course, lost. Uh, I, you know, I think, I think you're the first, uh, actor who I've spoken with, who's been on, who was on the show.

[00:23:24] Marc Preston: Uh.

[00:23:26] Ken Leung: Oh wow.

[00:23:26] Marc Preston: When you were, that's surprising.

[00:23:27] Ken Leung: When

[00:23:27] Marc Preston: you were surprising

[00:23:27] Ken Leung: for so many of us. I know.

[00:23:29] Marc Preston: I, I, I, I think there's somebody in there somewhere, but I, you know, after all these episodes, I'm like, okay, I have to, you know, have my memory. Yeah. When you audition for that, I'm assuming you just kind of a standard audition or you I didn't agent told you about.

[00:23:41] Ken Leung: I didn't, I didn't audition for that.

[00:23:42] Marc Preston: Really? Really?

[00:23:43] Ken Leung: Yeah. They liked, they liked my episode of The Sopranos Cameron, uh, uh, Cameron, um, uh, Carlton. Carlton Qs. And, uh, Damon Lindelof. I said, Cameron, 'cause we were just talking about Cameron Crow. So they saw, [00:24:00] uh, Sopranos. They, you know, the, the way they made lost was they, they found actors that they got a sense, oh, let's see what they can bring.

[00:24:08] Ken Leung: Something about this actor is interesting. Let's bring them to the island and see, see what happens. It, it wasn't so much even

[00:24:16] Marc Preston: really, it was like a,

[00:24:18] Ken Leung: a

[00:24:18] Marc Preston: big chemistry test kind of a thing.

[00:24:20] Ken Leung: I think that's how they generally. Did things. It wasn't so much we have this role, it's defined this way. Who fits that?

[00:24:30] Ken Leung: You know, they kind of went in the reverse. They were like, let, let's, we'll, we'll have the role be kind of formless. Um, but we know we want, we know we have a slot here for that. We want somebody to fill. Now let's look for who is interesting to us. And they saw my episode of Sopranos and. And, uh, liked it, so they called me.

[00:24:54] Ken Leung: So there was no, there was no audition. And not even much of a, there was a [00:25:00] brief chat. Before I left to go, to go there. Um, well,

[00:25:04] Marc Preston: did did they even tell you anything about, I mean, I don't even know how they would in, in a quick chat, explain what the show's about?

[00:25:11] Ken Leung: No. Or were

[00:25:11] Marc Preston: you just kind of going

[00:25:12] Ken Leung: No, the chat was to prepare me, um.

[00:25:16] Ken Leung: To not have information. It was, we, we just want you to come, be present, and let's see how it goes. We have a vague idea of this role, you know, you're part of this freighter team and this and that, but I, I didn't come away from that call. With any real idea of what was gonna happen.

[00:25:37] Marc Preston: Yeah. 'cause your character in the show was not one of the original, uh, crash.

[00:25:41] Marc Preston: The people crash in a plane. You came on. I came on season later,

[00:25:45] Ken Leung: season 4, 4, 5, 6.

[00:25:47] Marc Preston: What I loved about that show, what was great is it was an ensemble of course, but there were multiple, of course you had the hatch, you know what was going on there. But wasn't there a a space of time where you. It [00:26:00] was kind of in further into the show where y'all were kinda living in the past, you know, for lack of a better way of putting it.

[00:26:06] Marc Preston: Yeah,

[00:26:07] Ken Leung: yeah. We jumped, uh, we jumped time. There was, uh, we had, we had flashbacks and then we had flash forwards, and then we had flash sideways, so we played with time.

[00:26:26] Marc Preston: Generally as a kid who loves being around the beach, uh, what was that like to kind of, you know, be on the island? You're, you're working on this project, you are sort of on, on your own figurative island because Yeah. People aren't coming by, you know, uh, what was it, what was the experience of making that show?

[00:26:40] Marc Preston: Like, and I don't mean to kind of groove just on lost, but I mean, it's, it's, it was a very pivotal, very big show for its time.

[00:26:45] Ken Leung: Well, it, it evolved. What it was like evolved because it started, you know, I had never been to Hawaii before. I'm a city boy. Um, and. It was, I, you couldn't find a [00:27:00] more different environment that I was used to.

[00:27:03] Ken Leung: So I was a, a fish outta water there. Um, and because I didn't have information on what I was playing and I was a young actor who kind of felt like I needed to know things. I had kind of a hard time in the beginning.

[00:27:22] Marc Preston: I don't know how day players came in or weak players and even understood what the heck was going on, you know?

[00:27:27] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:27:28] Marc Preston: You settled into it. I mean, you there, there was your character. Everybody evolved. That's what made the show, I think, really interesting. Every character kind of evolved through relationships and through, you thought they were crazy, but they actually had their stuff together and vice versa. And it was, I think it was a well executed show and I don't know, you know, with streaming and all that.

[00:27:46] Marc Preston: I don't know if a show like Lost could really exist again. You know, you have big shows like, you know, stranger Things might hit or something, you know, but when you only had those few networks and you had appointment viewing and everybody on this night was gonna watch the [00:28:00] show, you know, uh, watching parties and things like that, what, was that kind of a heady thing for you to be a part of?

[00:28:05] Marc Preston: Or were you even kind of cognizant of, of, of the weight of the show in the moment?

[00:28:10] Ken Leung: Yeah, it was like once I got past that beginning discomfort. Of being in, being on an island, um, being on a show that is such a mystery. Once I got past that, because I did get past that, then it was. It was a ball. It was, um, it was just the time of my life.

[00:28:33] Ken Leung: And I'll never

[00:28:33] Marc Preston: forget. I, I, I can't, I can't even imagine. I'm so incredibly envious because I can't imagine being an actor. And it almost seems like you're kind of a summer camp a little bit, you know, because you're, yeah,

[00:28:43] Ken Leung: I guess so

[00:28:44] Marc Preston: siloed away with, with these folks. Uh, I know for a while people, what was it, the Dharma Society, was that the name of the thing people were, yeah, there were things, Dharma issues.

[00:28:53] Marc Preston: Dhar there. There you go. And that was such a, it was such a great show 'cause you didn't know what was coming, but did you collect anything there? 'cause I know [00:29:00] on eBay people were selling like Dharma beer cans and, and all this stuff. I have a beer,

[00:29:04] Ken Leung: can I have a Dharma beer? Can? Yeah. What else do I have? I think I have little things.

[00:29:10] Ken Leung: Um, I have to, I'd have to look, but the beer can, I remember the beer can, because I had to empty it like just a few years ago. I was going through my box of souvenirs from different things and I noticed the cannon, it was, it had whatever was in it and it was just disgusting. It was leaking well, that it was mess, messing up my other stuff, so I had to clean it up and stuff.

[00:29:34] Marc Preston: Well, you know, you go from a show like that, that, that, that we're, now let's fast forward. Now we're in the kinda the streaming era where cable, you know, uh, of course. Hang on, ranger.

[00:29:43] Ken Leung: Hey, it's okay.

[00:29:44] Marc Preston: He's a hot mess. I apologize. Um, he's, he's one to talk. He doesn't understand why people can't come in and play with us.

[00:29:51] Marc Preston: You know, he's, he's a sweetheart. Has, he has, has question. It's funny though. He, he, he will listen when I'm talking to folks and he knows when I'm wrapping up and he is like, oh, it's time to play now. Um, oh. [00:30:00] But

[00:30:00] Ken Leung: you can tell by your tone.

[00:30:02] Marc Preston: Yeah, I coach voiceover also, and when I'm at the end of the session when I coach some of my students, he'll, he'll know, he'll stand up and he'll put his paw on my shoulder.

[00:30:09] Marc Preston: Like, I don't know what he reads, but he reads very well.

[00:30:13] Ken Leung: He's very, he reads your energy

[00:30:15] Marc Preston: abs. I think so. I mean, that's the only thing that it makes sense to me what he, what he is up to. But, um, that's

[00:30:19] Ken Leung: so interesting that you coach voiceovers. That's such a un, un, non-obvious. Um. Art,

[00:30:28] Marc Preston: you know, I think people, because it is, uh, I think it so acting's a lot like that.

[00:30:33] Marc Preston: It, it is very much, it's, it uses all the same acting skills. I, a lot of people I've worked with, some actors, Nel even, uh, they're like, this is kinda like the Meisner method. And I was like, well, it's, it's. It's like being a kid, use your imagination. 'cause you don't have another, you know, acting, being, reacting.

[00:30:48] Marc Preston: Yeah. You don't have somebody there with you to bounce. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all imagination. So I was working with some Disney Channel kids and they got nothing but a, you know, when you're a kid, you know, you got full imagination and you know, it's easy for you. Uh, [00:31:00] and you know, when you get a little older, it's harder to kinda like, I guess access that make believe.

[00:31:05] Marc Preston: You know, so that's why I like working with, with, uh, the kids because they remind me how to, you know, stay goofy, but, you know, I, I think it's what was really cool, kinda the last big heyday of big, you know, big Ford network programming. Now we're fast forward to now, and like you're being on industry, which season.

[00:31:22] Marc Preston: Four, it's season four, correct? Yeah. Going into, that's

[00:31:24] Ken Leung: right.

[00:31:25] Marc Preston: And you, you're developing a, you know, a big following and, but it is a do well, let me ask you a question. Do you think your character is a lot different than, let's say, the character, let's go back to loss. Do you feel he is a lot different, or do you think it's just, you know, oh gosh, it's completely, it's

[00:31:39] Ken Leung: different.

[00:31:39] Marc Preston: You know, as far as like internally, what's, what's, you know, going on. Yeah. He, he's, you're very, you're very, you're very measured, you know, your character in industry. Yeah.

[00:31:48] Ken Leung: He's a lot older.

[00:31:49] Marc Preston: Yeah. Yeah. In the first episode, you did mention something, uh, I, I don't like giving spoilers, but you did kind of reference the age things in perspective, and I thought that was kind of interesting in the first, [00:32:00] first or second episode towards the end of the episode, I think you're,

[00:32:03] Ken Leung: you mean of

[00:32:04] Marc Preston: the series of, uh, season four?

[00:32:06] Marc Preston: Season

[00:32:06] Ken Leung: four. Ah, I see, I see. Yeah. When season four opens, I'm retired, which is different, right, right. From the previous three seasons. So age and this, uh, particular phase in his life is very prominent, whereas it wasn't so before.

[00:32:24] Marc Preston: You know, I'm just kind of coming into learning more about industry.

[00:32:28] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:32:28] Marc Preston: And, and watching, really enjoying it.

[00:32:30] Marc Preston: But it's a lot going on. It's, it's a very dense show. Yeah, it is. With not just the subject matter that's being covered, but the personalities and, and the, uh, granted I'm starting off a season four. I'm gonna go back and watch all 'em. I'm like, I'm, I'm hooked Now. Was there any prep for you? Was there any like, let me watch, you know, Michael Douglas and, uh, was it.

[00:32:49] Marc Preston: Was Wall Street. What was that movie he was in or, or were you Yeah. Wall Street. Were you trying to look, were you kinda looking for your Mount Rush? More of like, these are either fictitious or real world financial guys? You [00:33:00] know what,

[00:33:00] Ken Leung: no. Because it was such a foreign world, um, I needed, I knew that I needed to find something that came from me, like it couldn't be something I was emulating or mimicking.

[00:33:14] Ken Leung: Um, that would, I mean, would only get you so far. Um, I needed to kind of find, uh, where his drive came from in a, in a, in a way that I could understand. And so first that meant that I had to forgive myself for not knowing much about finance. I had to, I had to see it in a way. Where I did, I did know everything about this world.

[00:33:41] Ken Leung: I had to, I had to own the world, um, or find a way to think of the world in a way that I could own it, in a way that the, you know, Ken, the actor. Um, didn't, not knowing anything about finance, so I had to kind of go inside and not look [00:34:00] for models outside.

[00:34:02] Marc Preston: Because, because it seems like that everyone in that ecosystem or sort of like the, the people behind the curtain kind of, sort of like in this current.

[00:34:10] Marc Preston: Political climate we're in, we're imagining these are maybe the people all behind the scenes who are pulling levers and doing things that I, I'm happy when I balance my checkbook, you know, so I'm, I'm, you know, looking at this character and looking at, you know, again, I, I'm not as acquainted with the earlier seasons.

[00:34:26] Marc Preston: Now people are listening to this going, oh, you gotta go watch it. You know, which I'm going to. The Four Seasons

[00:34:30] Ken Leung: are almost like four different shows.

[00:34:32] Marc Preston: Really. Okay. Okay. Yeah,

[00:34:34] Ken Leung: they're very different.

[00:34:34] Marc Preston: Um, what was the biggest challenge for you? I mean, it was just, like you say, just kind of finding your hook.

[00:34:39] Marc Preston: Like this is, are, yeah. You were handled to hold onto going.

[00:34:41] Ken Leung: That was, that was the, the first challenge. And the biggest challenge after that was, I guess to revisit, reenter that. Space, um, every couple of years was a little challenging because in between, you know, you do other stuff, you live your life. So it took [00:35:00] some reentering.

[00:35:01] Ken Leung: Um, I had created a kind of very specific space and a very specific mind set to play this role, and it was something I had to come in and out of. Over six years

[00:35:16] Marc Preston: as you talk about your career and you kind of, you know, you're still kind of figuring it out. I'm like, you've, you've had nice stretches on some really great,

[00:35:23] Ken Leung: great.

[00:35:23] Ken Leung: Yeah. I've been super, super lucky. Yeah. Yeah. I'm never gonna stop figuring it out or trying to figure it out.

[00:35:29] Marc Preston: Yeah.

[00:35:29] Ken Leung: That, that's part of, that's the game. That's the game. Just like we are never gonna stop living, trying to live our best life. Be the best. Ki you know, best person. We never stop that. You're never gonna,

[00:35:44] Marc Preston: as we, as we evolve, you know?

[00:35:46] Marc Preston: That's right. How do we be the best person in this moment? Uh, and before that's exactly, you know, just wanted to quickly touch on the project. Hail Mary. Uh, which I, when does it come out? March. Um, the trailers alone on this, this, this film. I'm like, I don't wanna know too much about it. 'cause I, I love that feeling of [00:36:00] not knowing a lot, but jumping in, going, you know?

[00:36:02] Marc Preston: Yeah. Yeah. I saw you. Mil. Lot of Vine Troub was in that. It was funny. I was talked to her ago.

[00:36:07] Ken Leung: Oh, you got to

[00:36:07] Marc Preston: talk to, to her a year ago, I think.

[00:36:08] Ken Leung: Oh, awesome.

[00:36:08] Marc Preston: Oh yeah. A little over a year ago. Yeah. Y'all have worked together a couple times? I think, if I'm not mistaken,

[00:36:12] me

[00:36:12] Ken Leung: and her. No, no. This was our first thing together.

[00:36:14] Marc Preston: Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:36:15] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:36:16] Marc Preston: Within the ecosystem of the film, what, where do you kind of come in on, in this?

[00:36:22] Ken Leung: Um, me, her and Ryan are the, are are a team of three. Uh, that go on Project Hail Mary.

[00:36:30] Marc Preston: Yeah, that's all I wanna know.

[00:36:31] Ken Leung: I may have already told you more than I should have. Oh, no, no, no.

[00:36:35] Marc Preston: That's coming out in March and yeah.

[00:36:36] Marc Preston: Uh, do you have anything coming up after that, that, uh, anything in 2026?

[00:36:41] Ken Leung: Well, I'm gonna start in a few weeks, um, a new show that for the first time is gonna be shot here. In New York. Well, that'll be

[00:36:51] Marc Preston: nice.

[00:36:52] Ken Leung: Yeah. So that'll be fun. I'm, I don't want to say anything about it since we haven't even started.

[00:36:58] Marc Preston: Well, well, don't, [00:37:00] I always love, I, I'm one of these people I don't like knowing too much about, which is ironic.

[00:37:04] Marc Preston: I do this, but I, I love being surprised.

[00:37:06] Ken Leung: You know what's funny? As a callback to lost, I went from wanting to know everything or as much as I could. To, to what you're saying now. I like knowing as little as possible because then I'm really engaged with what is this, you know?

[00:37:24] Marc Preston: And you don't want that part of your brain kicking in that predicts what's gonna happen and you know, it's just like, you just want to kind of like be in that moment.

[00:37:29] Ken Leung: Well, like Alan Watts says, you know, if you. If you are not here now and you're always thinking of the future, when you get to the future, you're not gonna be there.

[00:37:40] Marc Preston: That's the one thing about Al Wata I remember is like, 'cause I'm always one of these people, planning, planning, planning. And it's like, okay, stop.

[00:37:46] Marc Preston: Where are you? That's why they take a walk on the beach and just like letting my brain just, you know, empty.

[00:37:51] Ken Leung: Yeah, kinda

[00:37:51] Marc Preston: just kind of being in the moment.

[00:37:52] Ken Leung: Part of that is to be kind to yourself, like don't kick yourself for not being present. Like be kind to be [00:38:00] okay, okay. I wasn't present. Um, and now I am, you know, so I think kindness is part of it.

[00:38:12] Marc Preston: Something I call my seven questions kind of rapid fire. Oh, cool. A little bit of fun. I always talk food at least once and I always ask first question, what's your favorite comfort food? Um, great day or rough day, or something that just makes you feel good.

[00:38:27] Ken Leung: Bitter Melon. Uh, it's also called Aya in Tagalog.

[00:38:32] Ken Leung: Um, and it's a gourd. It's a, it's ugly, but, and, and it's medicinal. So some, you know,

[00:38:40] Marc Preston: yeah,

[00:38:41] Ken Leung: I've heard about that. Either. Either. Either you love it or you hate it, and

[00:38:44] Marc Preston: kinda like a big, bumpy cucumber. It's over. Yeah.

[00:38:47] Ken Leung: Big bumpy cucumber is the perfect description. I, I mean, once you acquire a taste for it, it's, you can't get enough of it.

[00:38:56] Ken Leung: Uh, and I think it's really good for you that medicinal kind of [00:39:00] bitter taste.

[00:39:01] Marc Preston: The next question I got, if you're gonna sit down three people, you and three people have coffee talk story for a few hours, living or not, who would those three people be?

[00:39:10] Ken Leung: Oh my goodness. That

[00:39:11] Marc Preston: you would like to sit down with

[00:39:12] Ken Leung: my brother.

[00:39:14] Ken Leung: Um, who passed, uh, 13 years ago? My brother. Um, who else? I would say Alan Watts only 'cause we're talking about him, uh,

[00:39:31] Marc Preston: because he's definitely my,

[00:39:32] Ken Leung: but not only, not only because, but because we're talking about him. I would say yes to that and Mickey Mouse. I don't know what it's like to not be a person, but

[00:39:46] Marc Preston: you just like landed on the moon of creating a whole new, like, that's a great,

[00:39:51] Ken Leung: yeah.

[00:39:51] Ken Leung: What's it like in your world, Mickey Mouse? People gotta people draw you and stuff.

[00:39:56] Marc Preston: Yeah. You're an i, I, I feel like we can travel to alternate universe and

[00:39:59] Ken Leung: we [00:40:00] just did a flash sideways.

[00:40:03] Marc Preston: Very nice. Now, now, if you were to go back when you were a young guy, who, who was your very first celebrity crush?

[00:40:09] Ken Leung: Oh, what a great question.

[00:40:11] Ken Leung: Oh my goodness. My very first, ah, well, I, I don't know if this is first, but Mary Lou Reten, I had the biggest crush of Mary Lou Red.

[00:40:22] Marc Preston: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. That's, you know, we're of that, we're of that generation and, uh, America

[00:40:28] Ken Leung: sweetheart.

[00:40:29] Marc Preston: 1984 Olympics, right? 84.

[00:40:31] Ken Leung: 1984 Olympics.

[00:40:32] Marc Preston: Yeah.

[00:40:33] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:40:33] Marc Preston: Um, now next question. I, if you were to be on an exotic island, okay? In your case, let's say you are living in the hatch, all right? Okay. You're gonna be there for a full y full year uhhuh. You could bring 1D VD and one cd. You get, you could watch one movie over and over again and listen to one album over and over again.

[00:40:49] Marc Preston: What would that DVD be and what would that c

[00:40:52] Ken Leung: Rocky two.

[00:40:53] Marc Preston: Rocky two, okay.

[00:40:56] Ken Leung: What. What are you gonna say?

[00:40:58] Marc Preston: I'm, I'm trying to remember which one, which, [00:41:00] what happened in Rocky two. Oh, it's

[00:41:01] Ken Leung: the one where he has a baby? It's the one, it's the rematch.

[00:41:04] Marc Preston: Yeah. Okay. Um, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when he actually ends up becoming friends with couple Flo.

[00:41:09] Marc Preston: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh,

[00:41:11] Ken Leung: no, no, no. That's, no, he, they become friends in three. Yeah. Two is when they, he gets married. He and, and Adrian. Has problems during childbirth and falls into a coma. Their baby is born, he gets the re he, he doesn't want to have the rematch. Uh, he doesn't wanna fight or, or she doesn't want him to fight anymore.

[00:41:32] Marc Preston: Oh, okay.

[00:41:32] Ken Leung: And then she does. It's been

[00:41:33] Marc Preston: years since I've seen that. Yeah.

[00:41:34] Ken Leung: Yeah. You

[00:41:35] Marc Preston: know, now I'm gonna go back and rewatch it. Now, music wise though, what, what's that CD gonna be for you?

[00:41:40] Ken Leung: That CD would be, ah, gosh, I lost this CD and I've just been broken up over losing it. Because I don't remember the exact name, but it was a John Coltrane live.

[00:41:53] Ken Leung: I think it's in Berlin or something. But, um, I. It's a [00:42:00] black, I wanna say black bird, it's called something like that,

[00:42:06] Marc Preston: that, that seems like that would work really well in the hatch though. You know, fire up a cup of coffee. Yeah.

[00:42:10] Ken Leung: You

[00:42:10] Marc Preston: sit back, you got some Coltrane on that actually. Especially when you consider the aesthetic of the, that mid-century vibe of, you know, of the hatch.

[00:42:19] Ken Leung: And it's live. And it's live, so you, it feels peopled. Um, yeah, those two things.

[00:42:26] Marc Preston: Now definition of the, of a perfect day for you beginning to end. What are the primary com like component parts of a day that you can define going? This is a perfect day for me.

[00:42:38] Ken Leung: Oh, any day that I get to spend the whole day with my son and my wife, we, you know, it's just the three of us.

[00:42:47] Ken Leung: And we're very tight and I travel so much, you know, I have to leave them so often. Um,

[00:42:54] Marc Preston: which is nice. Next project gonna be shooting it in New York. It's gonna be nice.

[00:42:57] Ken Leung: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so excited for [00:43:00] that. Also curious 'cause what is that gonna be? You know, sometimes it's, it's as hard as it is to be away.

[00:43:07] Ken Leung: It's also useful to be away. Um, 'cause you're creating a space specific to the thing you're doing. So what happens when that space is home that that's gonna be very

[00:43:17] Marc Preston: interest. And as your son gets a little bit older, he's gonna have this whole library of stuff he's gonna be able to watch, go, this is what dad was up to.

[00:43:23] Marc Preston: You know, some things maybe aren't age appropriate for him right now, but be mo most things.

[00:43:27] Ken Leung: Yeah.

[00:43:29] Marc Preston: Um, if you weren't doing this for a living. Next question, what would you be doing if this was not an option for you? What would you,

[00:43:35] Ken Leung: you mean if I could do anything? If I could do anything, I, I would love to be, I would love to be some kind of musician.

[00:43:43] Marc Preston: Very, very nice. Um, what instrument, what instrument?

[00:43:46] Ken Leung: Trumpet.

[00:43:47] Marc Preston: Very good. Very good. Last question I got for you. You're a Gen X kid, so you know the DeLorean, if you can go jump in it and you can go back to when you're 16 years old, piece of advice, uh, do you can give yourself at that moment to say, [00:44:00] uh, you know, make that moment better or to set yourself on a little bit different path?

[00:44:03] Marc Preston: What would that piece of advice be?

[00:44:06] Ken Leung: Wow, Marc, these are amazing questions. Geez, lists. Listen and trust the voice inside of you.

[00:44:17] Marc Preston: That's wonderful. Uh, my friend, I, I very much enjoyed the opportunity to sit down with you. Uh, hopefully we'll have an opportunity to catch up down the line. This has been more than a pleasure.

[00:44:26] Marc Preston: Uh, I wish you nothing but the best, and, uh, I'm going to go enjoy the rest of, uh, all four seasons of, uh, industry now.

[00:44:33] Ken Leung: Thank you, brother. I'll talk to you next time.

[00:44:37] Marc Preston: All right. There you go. Ken. L. This conversation was a lot of fun. I told you I was gonna fanboy out on the whole lost thing and uh, I'm glad he indulged me.

[00:44:47] Marc Preston: I'm glad to know. Always got a beer can at home. A Dharma initiative, a beer can that warms my soul. Um, it was a lot of fun chatting with Ken, uh, the new season of industry. It is season four. It is [00:45:00] available right now, H-B-O-H-B-O, max Popover to our substack. That's where you get signed up for the newsletter.

[00:45:06] Marc Preston: A little change, totally free, but, uh, big fan of Substack, big fan of independent media and really like what they're up to there. Just go to story and craft. Dot substack.com. Once again, story and craft.substack.com. Of course, the website, uh, is always up. Story and craft pod.com. You can find out everything about the show, past guest, send me an email, whatever you'd like to do.

[00:45:31] Marc Preston: I greatly appreciate you, uh, you know, touching base. It's always cool to hear from you. Uh, and of course, make sure to follow Story and Craft on your favorite podcast app. It does help people to find the show, uh, and I appreciate that. And, uh, okay, so I'm gonna get on out of here, have myself a little bite to eat for dinner.

[00:45:48] Marc Preston: It is dinner time and I'm always doing this right before I eat. So, uh, thank you. Thank you so much for stopping by. Another great episode coming up soon. And as I always say from the heart, thank you so much for [00:46:00] making what I've got going on here, part of whatever you've got going on, and, uh, we'll see you next time right here on Story and Craft.

[00:46:07] Announcer: That's it. For this episode of Story and Craft, join Marc next week for more conversation. Right here on Story and Craft Story and Craft is a presentation of Marc Preston Production's. LLC Executive Producer is Marc Preston, associate producer. Is Zachary Holden, please rate and review story and craft on Apple Podcasts.

[00:46:29] Announcer: Don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. You can subscribe to show updates, and stay in the know. Just head to story and craft pod.com and sign up for the newsletter. I'm Emma Dylan. See you next time. And remember, keep telling your story.